This is just a project. What's the line? "Not my circus, not my monkeys"?

Just looked at the December stats for ML... 2,139,721 page views!!! It's awesome to see how this effort is growing. Keep it up!

@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:

@scottalanmiller said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:

@wirestyle22 said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:

@Dashrender said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:

@NetworkNerd said in Backups - how much does backup performance matter to you?:

It all depends on the RTO you need to hit. But to the points being made here, the RTO may be different depending on the applications in your environment. Maybe the ERP system and its SQL database are all that need to come back within 1 hour of going down but the file server's RTO could be closer to 2 or 3 hours.

We talk about RTO and RPO, but I bet you in most places those are not clearly defined down to the VM / application level. If they are and you've planned accordingly, bravo.

I had an RTO of 4 days approved by the board for our EHR 10 years ago - I couldn't believe it when they said that was fine.

Other than a board inappropriately getting involved with details they should know nothing about, the final decision is very sensible. What SMB needs all systems restored in less than four days? Almost none. SOme, certainly, but not the average.

We have these numbers of what it costs us to do something - though those numbers mostly don't exist for things like internal paperwork. i.e. EHR is down, fall back to paper - now imput that paper into the EHR (and not just scans of the paper - actual data entry). That data entry is the actual cost to us of downtime for the most part. We can still see patients in most cases in the clinic - surgeries of course stop.

So yeah, having this system down for four days would have been bad.

But, if the math is sound that arrived at the 4 day limit, it may not be as critical as it seems connotatively.

@coliver Think about it. The population of the island reaches back to at least 600BC (not looking, just off the top of my head). No cars back then. Small island, decent population, built before cars.

@scottalanmiller said in Linux and Windows argument:

@dafyre said in Linux and Windows argument:

Why is it asking for iTunes if all you need to do is charge it?

I've never had that happen and we have three iPhones and five iPads and have for many years.

Same here. I've never seen anything like that. Also, who's to say that picture means that it is requiring iTunes to charge? Or how do you know what it means at all? It's a picture of a USB connector and iTunes... is the iPad connected to a computer and charging via a USB connection? It looks to me like iTunes believes there is a USB connection and wants to be opened for management of data.

@DustinB3403 said:

Because even in South America they don't shoot you for walking up to someones home.

Right, they just shoot people in the streets there.

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Tim_G said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

The first time I heard of a pizzabox was in a datacenter talking about IBM 1U servers. Right or wrong, the term has two meanings today.

Just like cloud has two meanings, and blades do. We work in IT, wrong is wrong. There isn't room for sloppy. Just using terms mistakenly doesn't make it okay.

You can say it has two meanings, but where does thinking like that stop? Soon you can say anything and we have no terminology for our field. Just because lots of people repeat something incorrectly doesn't make it okay nor does it make it a term for that thing.

I do get your point and you are right, but it doesn't have to be so black and white.

Problem is, the part of the industry that really uses the term says "have you worked on a pizza box", asking people if they have historical knowledge of RISC desktops and they answer "of course" because... they've seen a computer.

Then they need to be less vague in their questioning. There's a bit of an assumption there, especially when it's common knowledge that the term is widely misused with regard to its original context. If they get a bad response, they should have asked a better question.

@RojoLoco House sound? That's awful.

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.

Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?

I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...

So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol

And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...

Holy shit, you're right LOL

Can't have it both ways. Either you're wrong for thinking 2003 might be in some way relevant, or lose the hipster shtick and realize that a nickname for something 25 years old in IT means nothing.

2003 isn't appropriate for business. Accuracy is not "hipster." Just because a term is for something old, doesn't mean that people discussing something old or supporting something old can misuse the term legitimately. No matter how old Windows 2003 is, you can never call something else Windows 2003 just because you think it is hipster to use the right term. CentOS 6 will never be Windows 2003 just because time passes. A '67 Chevy can't be called a Ford now just because you can't buy one.

Those are all definite items. By that logic, you can't call a computer a pizza box, because a box that contains pizza is a literal pizza box. Once you give something a nickname, it loses the direct connection to what it's now being called, based on something that has nothing to do with the true purpose of the item. Any moron can clearly see that it is a computer and not a box of pizza. If the trademarked name was the IBM Pizza Box, that would be a different story. But, it's not. If I feel like calling a 1U server a pizza box and have never heard of the SPARCstation, that doesn't nullify my ability to use a nickname. Or, we can't call you SAM because someone else at some earlier time used the nickname and to call you SAM is inherently incorrect to anyone who is aware of its former use.

@scottalanmiller sure it is...

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

If I feel like calling a spoon a dinglehopper, even though Ariel already taught us that a fork is a dinglehopper, I'm not wrong. Neither of them is actually a dinglehopper. It's a nickname and has nothing to due with anything that actually means something.

You are talking about intent, which doesn't apply here as my point is specifically that there was no intentional re-use, only accidental misuse and repetition.

Nicknames are aliases and they do have definite meaning, though.

Unless you were standing there the very first time that it was supposedly used incorrectly, you don't know the intent. It could easily have been someone thinking a 1U server looks like a box of pizza. It's not codified.

@dafyre said:

@Minion-Queen said:

Early morning meetings.... I am not awake enough for this yet.

Has the plague finally left your house yet?

Still lingering, but losing its grip.

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_box_form_factor

It's even got an official encyclopedia entry. This is NOT something one can just make up and hope no one notices.

Yup, and it references far more than just the Sparcstation, as well as making mention of 1U servers.

@coliver said:
"digital data storage that is capable of surviving for billions of years"

Have they field-tested that?

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

If I said "I've worked on a pizza box; that means a 1U server, right?"... that is not lying because I am supplying the name AND providing the reference that I am using. It might be the wrong use of the term, but I am providing the underlying definition. There is no deceit.

If they neglected to qualify the statement by verifying the definition that you are meaning, that still does not equal deception. Oversight and misunderstanding do not equal lies.

LAN "Lord" says very cool, autocratic master of all things pertaining to the LAN.
"LANLord" says getting calls at 3am that the something-or-other isn't working, and I have to go fix it, or I won't get rent money.

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

Or... you are a bomb technician. You cut the "safe" wire because you were told that the green wire was safe by someone that was told that the green wire was safe who had someone just make up that green was safe because they were pretending to be a bomb expert. Are you still going to blow up? Yes.

If you're a smart bomb tech, you make sure you ask which one they mean when they "safe", before you cut anything. People might tend to be a bit more flippant when asked "have you worked on a pizza box?", and justifiably so.

So we're in a parking lot last night, walking to the car, and this Cadillac is backing out of a spot right in front of us. I catch a glimpse of the license plate and chuckle. I say "FTP-8888... I wonder what he does for a living." All I get is blank stares. As soon as I explain, then it's the "you're such a dork" look. The only response I actually got was "F*** The Police! lol

Help me out guys. Was it that hard?

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:

Name any lie that can't be handled by claiming it is "just semantics". Clinton and what does "is" mean.

Well, your entire argument is invalid. Pizza boxes have pizza in them. End of story. If you call a computer a pizza box then you are a liar. I don't care if you have ever eaten pizza or heard of pizza. If you refer to anything other than a box of pizza as a "pizza box" then you are doing it wrong and obviously lying. The person who propagated the use of the term "pizza box" for a computer form factor is the greatest deceiver of all, as I'm sure he had foreknowledge of a box that held pizza.

It was clearly defined by the industry with no intent to mislead. So you've missed the point.

Then who is defined as "the industry"? There was an ad that metaphorically referred to the case as a pizza box. So a single ad set the industry standard, but thousands of people using a word doesn't mean anything because, whether or not they ever saw the ad, it existed and they are all liars.

I could tell you what I'm doing right now, but it's top-secret NTG official business. You'll find out in a couple of days!