I am starting this thread and I’m just going to go through the good things in the Open Internet Order (being referred to as Net Neutrality). EDIT: I may stop and start on it until the entire bill is here. It is a pain in the ass to copy/paste because of its formatting. My intention was to markup up all the good stuff and cross reference to the things that offer loopholes for ISP's to get around. I am done with trying to post the entire order. Not really any point to it now.

I am changing my mind I think about whether getting rid of this bill was a good move.

It seems that the FCC did intend to revisit this legislation to continue to better it!

There are one or two things that basically create an entire loophole to get around a lot of the good stuff in the bill. The FCC actually admits in the bill that there’s not enough experience with interconnection to make it air tight, and perhaps they intended to return to this later once they’d observed and gained more experience managing this.

Link to OIO (Open Internet Order) aka Net Neutrality
https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-15-24A1_Rcd.pdf

Net Neutrality was a concept published by Tim Wu, a Columbian Law School Professor
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Wu

@dashrender said in YouTube TV:

@bigbear said in YouTube TV:

@dashrender said in YouTube TV:

@scottalanmiller said in YouTube TV:

@rojoloco said in YouTube TV:

@scottalanmiller said in YouTube TV:

@rojoloco said in YouTube TV:

@scottalanmiller said in YouTube TV:

@rojoloco said in YouTube TV:

@scottalanmiller said in YouTube TV:

@bigbear said in YouTube TV:

@scottalanmiller said in YouTube TV:

As someone who struggles for normal television to even qualify as interesting, binging is one of the few mechanisms that I have to make it worth sitting down for.

I think its a boxed wine vs bottled wine thing. Or Bourbon vs Scotch maybe?

Wait, maybe Seagrams vs a 7 & 7 is the best comparison?

Boxed wine is better if you want the wine to be properly maintained. Bottled it to make people feel better about it. One is about the quality, one is about the emotional response.

Just like an aluminum can is a far better storage and transportation vessel for beer than a glass bottle. Glad they started putting good beer into cans, removes some of the stigma.

Exactly. Seals better, keeps more light out.

And you can take it to the pool, the beach, or anywhere else glass bottles are a no-no.

Also a good point. Same with boxes of wine

Up your box wine game by removing the box and carrying the bag around. Bag wine is where it's at.

Up that game by replacing the wine with bourbon. bagged bourbon is the real game in town.

No doubt.. I need to ask Monkey Shoulder to make a bagged whiskey.

LOL I still have half a bottle of this. You tried Lagavulin 16? I ehter drink a bourban called 1792 that is equivelant price to Monkey Shoulder or a my premium drink, Lagavulin.

I dont know if the Monkey Shoulder made me sick or if I just was getting sick anyway. I thought it was good for the few drams I had, but its in my head now that it made me sick and I cant finish the bottle.

Nope, haven't heard of that. I don't go in search of whiskeys.. I sorta just bump into a good one every now and again.

Lagavulin 16 is a very strong Scotch. Sorta like a melted down tree trunk. My wife protests when I open the bottle when she is home at all.

Also a Ron Swanson favorite, which is where I first heard of it...

Youtube Video

@scottalanmiller In my world ISR would bring Adtran to mind. Also 3com/US Robotics before HP bought them up.

I think Cisco was about a decade late to abusing that terminology. Because what they call Integrated Service Router really isn't anything an ISP would be interested in using as a CPE.

@scottalanmiller said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@dashrender said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

The problem with this is that this is no longer true. Services like Netflix broke this model. To that end, I understand a need for change to the interconnect agreement. In a case like this, I can understand why Netflix could/would be asked to pay their ISP more than the normal ISP fees, because they are the reason the ISP that NetFlix uses to become unbalanced at the Interconnect.

I don't buy this theory. Netflix already pays for their bandwidth. You never use more of a service and get worse and worse rates for being a bigger customer, you get either flat pricing or improved pricing based on volume. Netflix isn't the only data user on their ISP. Even if Netflix is the biggest single user, every user on the ISP is responsible for the imbalance together as a whole. If the prices are too low, then everyone needs to be charged more. It just means that Netflix' ISP accidentally billed too little to cover their costs (that seems unlikely.)

This is a nonsensical bit of BS that ISPs say to try to justify cheating. They want to double dip when they see a rich customer that they can extort.

Think about any other kind of business.... who charges their best customers extra? Who punishes people for being customers? It makes no sense unless they are extorting them. You don't go to McDonald's every day and get told that since you are such a regular, loyal customer that your burgers will cost more than those of less frequent customers! You already pay the same amount per sandwich as everyone else, you are already the highest paying customer.

Netflix already pays more than anyone else, they are already charged for their volume. There cannot be a need to charge them additionally. Any imbalance is caused by all cumulative customers and is supposed to be covered by the rate that the ISP charges to the customers.

Yeah you are right on this. And when I saw a long while back when this passed that it wasn’t going to apply to interconnect rules I really just threw my hands up in the air.

Reading the whole ting yesterday and the day before I realize that the FCC was trying to do the impossible and seemed to intend to return to this issue later when they had more experience.

So that is why I have changed my mind in the other new post I started. They didn’t need to repeal this, they needed to keep marching forward with it.

@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@bigbear said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

It's whiskey-o-clock. Been pulling allnighters like a 22 year old in a startup.

Just about to grab a beer with dinner here.

I tried a stiff pour, drank all at once. Probably 8 oz, repeated. I don't know how you take all that vodka.

@Dashrender watchguard is very fail

@scottalanmiller said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@bigbear said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@scottalanmiller said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

Or if Netflix was to be able to afford it, they would have to raise their prices and pass the cost onto the customers - the same customers we are claiming can't afford it. Clearly that's not possible.

So the bottom line is that the ISPs don't have a working business model. And there is only one group at potential fault for that, the ISPs.

So while Verizon is big enough to force Netflix to pay I am not. BUT.... reading NN more carefully the intention was to use TITLE II to set zero tier rates on a case by case basis.

So this is the reason I changed my mind yesterday. They could make my rate zero on an interconnect. Now I can compete and stay in business.

There should be no competition, that's why the government alone should control the Internet connections.

Well until then, we can agree that I wish the law was still in place.

With Pai I am actually getting fucked if I am an ISP until he does something specific to change this. I was fucked the whole time mind you, but seemed like with NN there was hope and a potential future that I would get assistance.

@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@bigbear said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@black3dynamite said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2085836-which-is-your-favourite-linux-configuration-management-tool

Show SodiumSuite some love I actually forgot about it and voted for Salt and feel like an idiot. But it is there now, so you can vote for it.

Ansible and SodiumSuite is tied.

Not for long, I bet.

Voted

Sweet. For SS, I hope, lol.

Yeah Sodium, and sent to a friend who will vote too I am sure.

@iroal said in Firewalls, the good, the bad, and the ugly.:

@PenguinWrangler said in Firewalls, the good, the bad, and the ugly.:

@Tim_G Give me a Sonicwall device and I will take it to my gun range for target practice. That's all they are good for. ESPECIALLY after Dell bought them. Sonicwall is awful. Nothing but issues.

Last year we change our SonicWall for Pfsense.
Very happy with the change.

I don't think Sonicwall is a bad product, main reason for the change was the expensive annual support for SonicWall, about 800€/Year

SonicWALL issues I remember..

It manipulated VoIP traffic regardless off what you turned off

Had terrible NAT Coning issues, bug reports were rejected

The command line interface was ass backwards

I think the only time I see a customer have it was when their IT preferred it. I believe your MSP/IT guys preferred for the same reason as SW. They give you software to manage all your customers in one place.

Single Pane of Glass trumps actual features and reliability pretty often. If I ever had a business that needed IT I am not sure I would trust your average MSP.

@dashrender said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@bigbear said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@scottalanmiller said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

Or if Netflix was to be able to afford it, they would have to raise their prices and pass the cost onto the customers - the same customers we are claiming can't afford it. Clearly that's not possible.

So the bottom line is that the ISPs don't have a working business model. And there is only one group at potential fault for that, the ISPs.

So while Verizon is big enough to force Netflix to pay I am not. BUT.... reading NN more carefully the intention was to use TITLE II to set zero tier rates on a case by case basis.

So this is the reason I changed my mind yesterday. They could make my rate zero on an interconnect. Now I can compete and stay in business.

They just werent sure how they were going to do it, and made some statements about how they would make their mind up as they went. Making the actual law more of a starting point that didnt change much in the beginning.

What? You changed your mind because you could use Title II to your advantage to steal from Verizon, assuming the FCC made you a zero rate on the interconnect? or did I completely misread that?

Sounds like you are misreading it.

Also, not involved in any ISP anymore.

In short I will see this

• I agree with Net Neutrality. It was headed in the right direction.

• It wasnt the wild west before this in 2015 there were many protections in place

• The complaints about throttling P2P and netflix were not even solved by the original legislation

Overall, I agree NN should have stayed. I also have found some questionable statements from Pai.

And is no one up in arms about all the Zero Rating stuff going on. Free Hulu with Sprint and so on?

@eddiejennings said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@bigbear said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@eddiejennings said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

Reading RHCSA book before teaching today’s saxophone lesson.

What kind of job are you going for with all the Linux stuff, just curious?

System administrator, but that’s a long way off.

Sounds like you have the drive to get there.

@EddieJennings I don't know about the third, but if you start a hosting trial at freepbxhosting.com you get the first two free. Even if you then mode your install to Vultr it seems the licenses follow you for free.

@dashrender said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@bigbear said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@scottalanmiller said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@dashrender said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@jaredbusch said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@tim_g said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

It's just a really weird and actually a deceiving concept. You can tell it has U.S. written all over that concept.

In Japan, it is a 50/50 shot on whether or not they display the post tax price or not.

Holy hell - that has to be a nightmare for consumers.

Just like in the US, just not 50/50. In the US there is no labelling rule. So we assume no tax, except that's not true. On gas, for example, you always assume taxes have been added in. Cigarettes is like part added in and part not.

With telecom there are some "truth in billing" things that seem like they are just there to make everyone crazy.

Depending on which telecom lawyer you ask you will get a different answer about what to do.

Examples?

It means you have to break out all the taxes and fees the same way you break out sales tax. USF fees are optional to breakout but you have to charge exact amounts and label them as the exact amount you paid.

Before this you may remember Verizon getting sued several times over BS "Recovery fees".

But the whole thing costs so much to bill, track and report that its a nightmare.

@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@bigbear said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

Targeting seems to be everything now. But still I am sure vendors make a little bit from hussling like that, otherwise they wouldnt keep coming back.

That's not actually true. With a lot of marketing, departments are given budgets and have no means to track success. So in many cases, marketing attempts are done without feedback and can actually do negative impact to sales, but no one knows how it happened.

Yeah I read something (maybe here) about how the more ads someone sees the less likely they are to engage with a brand or product. Wish I had the link.

@dafyre Yes deployed as session host its great. RDP to a windows 10 host just doesn't feel as fluid to me but I admit its not an SSD windows 10 machine.

@dashrender said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@bigbear said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@dashrender said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@bigbear said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@dashrender said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@bigbear said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@scottalanmiller said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@dashrender said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@jaredbusch said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@tim_g said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

It's just a really weird and actually a deceiving concept. You can tell it has U.S. written all over that concept.

In Japan, it is a 50/50 shot on whether or not they display the post tax price or not.

Holy hell - that has to be a nightmare for consumers.

Just like in the US, just not 50/50. In the US there is no labelling rule. So we assume no tax, except that's not true. On gas, for example, you always assume taxes have been added in. Cigarettes is like part added in and part not.

With telecom there are some "truth in billing" things that seem like they are just there to make everyone crazy.

Depending on which telecom lawyer you ask you will get a different answer about what to do.

Examples?

It means you have to break out all the taxes and fees the same way you break out sales tax. USF fees are optional to breakout but you have to charge exact amounts and label them as the exact amount you paid.

Before this you may remember Verizon getting sued several times over BS "Recovery fees".

But the whole thing costs so much to bill, track and report that its a nightmare.

Really? It does? Why does it? Don't you already have to track these fees to pay them to their respective companies/gov't agencies anyhow? How hard is it to pull that data from a DB to include on the bill?

What DB? Lol

You have to charge based on the end price including federal, state, local per tenant.

Ok the forms you don’t have to break out tenant info just count and fees remitted.

If it weren’t for this 499a requirement and 477 you could just pay it upstream and bill it as a a service plus sales tax. The taxes still got paid.

And because of this you got 10 to 20 hours of tax prep per month by a telco tax firm given your size, which also isn’t cheap.

But you're not alone, so everyone has to incur these fees. So what you're telling me that that the big boys were overcharging so much already that they just decided to eat the cost, where the small ISPs couldn't? I get that, that's a cost of being small.

Correct,

But not to confuse “BS Fees” I was referring to actual fraudulent fees Verizon added

Pople.

@dashrender said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@bigbear said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@dashrender said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@bigbear said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@dashrender said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@bigbear said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@scottalanmiller said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@dashrender said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@jaredbusch said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

@tim_g said in What Net Neutrality Means to You SAMIT Video:

It's just a really weird and actually a deceiving concept. You can tell it has U.S. written all over that concept.

In Japan, it is a 50/50 shot on whether or not they display the post tax price or not.

Holy hell - that has to be a nightmare for consumers.

Just like in the US, just not 50/50. In the US there is no labelling rule. So we assume no tax, except that's not true. On gas, for example, you always assume taxes have been added in. Cigarettes is like part added in and part not.

With telecom there are some "truth in billing" things that seem like they are just there to make everyone crazy.

Depending on which telecom lawyer you ask you will get a different answer about what to do.

Examples?

It means you have to break out all the taxes and fees the same way you break out sales tax. USF fees are optional to breakout but you have to charge exact amounts and label them as the exact amount you paid.

Before this you may remember Verizon getting sued several times over BS "Recovery fees".

But the whole thing costs so much to bill, track and report that its a nightmare.

Really? It does? Why does it? Don't you already have to track these fees to pay them to their respective companies/gov't agencies anyhow? How hard is it to pull that data from a DB to include on the bill?

What DB? Lol

You have to charge based on the end price including federal, state, local per tenant.

Ok the forms you don’t have to break out tenant info just count and fees remitted.

If it weren’t for this 499a requirement and 477 you could just pay it upstream and bill it as a a service plus sales tax. The taxes still got paid.

And because of this you got 10 to 20 hours of tax prep per month by a telco tax firm given your size, which also isn’t cheap.

But you're not alone, so everyone has to incur these fees. So what you're telling me that that the big boys were overcharging so much already that they just decided to eat the cost, where the small ISPs couldn't? I get that, that's a cost of being small.

Right,

But by “BS Fees” I meant Verizon was charging fraudulent fees.

Sales tax people understand.

Telecom tax people don’t, so in my opinion the fee reporting structure is also open to abuse, and has clearly been abused.

In addition it’s a pain in the ass lol

And I think we've established that even with automatic rifles no one can kill anyone...

@dafyre I believe there is something going on with RDSH in 2016 that is still better than WIndows 10, Remote FX aside.

I am not real excited about anything else Microsoft related. I was going to trial Citrix but I am not sure it could really get any better in regards to performance.

@dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

@dustinb3403 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

@dashrender said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

@bigbear said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

@coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

@bigbear said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

@dustinb3403 said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

@coliver said in FCC Net Neutrality Insanity Continues:

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/gop-net-neutrality-bill-would-allow-paid-fast-lanes-and-preempt-state-laws/?amp=1

Title says it will preserve the open internet. Does literally the opposite of that...

Because of issues like this I might just leave America.

I know it's drastic to say it, but this is just completely unbelievable. And we have at least 3 more years of this insanity from all arms of the government.

I was reading today how the repeal of NN was supported by small businesses because it will help them compete... like Netflix

Small business? Bigger now than all Cable TV providers combined.

Netflix didn't support the Net Neutrality repeal. They've been one of the many providers who have spoken in favor of Net Neutrality in the past.

https://twitter.com/netflix/status/933042368156123136

https://twitter.com/netflix/status/933073846839554048

It's the Cable TV providers and ISPs who have been publicly against Net Neutrality.

Right, so do you see my point about what I was reading?

remind me - I want to make sure I'm on the same page.
Who was saying small business want to repeal NN? And why?

from here it looks like small ISPs want it repealed so they can punish their users, instead of raising prices like they should to cover costs.

@bigbear was in support for the repeal of NN, but seems to have realized what NN is about (from a post he made about changing his stance).

Yeah - that much I know.

Once @bigbear found that it was the OIR (OIO) that was putting the rules he didn't like in place, the general idea of NN was something @bigbear now appears to support.

But that doesn't really play into the small business wants to repeal NN - unless there's conflating going on there, and those small businesses weren't separating OIR from NN, or as I mentioned above.. they just didn't want to have to raise prices - because...

I was aware that Net Neutrality was different than OIO and was trying to argue that in the beginning. My comment was that calling the bill Net Neutrality was brilliant marketing.

However, from reading the bill I found that there seemed to be a lot of good intention and an admission that they were going to have to learn as they moved forward.

Whats suspicious to me about the repeal is that, while passing they law didnt seem to do anything beyond the laws that existed before 2015, is that we now have no laws to replace this.

So that is my WTF moment of change sides on this.

@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

Holy cow, the green guy express pulled in to refuel and this station!

Can't believe no one has recommended Ulingo, SMH. Or what about NTG?

With all the vendors shit posting their wares I can easily see my $1000+ a month going anywhere but SW and actually yielding some sales.