@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:

It's the "no remote" that makes it crappy. Sure, if we didn't allow people to work remotely, then obviously cars would be obvious. But I've been remote since the 1990s. So it's not a good benefit to be given a car, it's an artefact of not being treated as well. Had they let you work remotely, the car would make no sense to them or to you.

Working with crappy dialup isn't fun, and most companies didn't even have the option for remote access back then. But the main reason was that it was cheaper for the companies to lease cars for the employees and claim tax deductible expenses for that, than to report larger gains and pay more tax (taxes are insanely high in Israel). When these cars became a taxable benefit and taxes rose higher and higher every year, it simply stopped making sense for an employee to take a company car instead of buying his own. But there was more than a decade of nothing but cars with various IT company stickers on the roads in Israel, good times, really.

My point here is, really, that until I actually relocated to another country, I was pretty certain that benefit is present everywhere

@jmoore I would love it too, if I didn't get to hear it so much, especially from recruiters who don't know anything about IT, so instead of catching up on tech at least to be able to read a CV, they just use a bunch of flashy words and hope that's what will catch the more expensive talent for them to market.

In fact, I just got almost this very phrase from a 60 year old recruiter, who called me and claimed I was one, and that he would love to set me up with a new job. I wish a hung up phone was able to hit people on the ass as well as a closed door can

@scottalanmiller I see DBAs in large organizations, managing large databases, obviously, it's not about knobs anymore, but more about optimizing queries, load distribution, analytics around the DB use etc.

@jmoore said in MongoDB vs. Redis:

@dyasny Oh thats why I never hear the dba title thrown around anymore, its evolved I guess.

I think, with all the NoSQL around, DBAs are considered "those old farts doing Oracle in the basement". The term is just not as flashy as "ninja unicorn narwhal rock star"

@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:

WHY should you be compensated? that makes no logical sense. You think that companies should not be free to adjust to changing business conditions. that's how US companies stay ahead.

You are just explaining to us why the US makes more money. The US has a lot bad going for it, but you are making it really clear how much basic day to day stuff we get really, really right.

LOL, ok, you're entitled to your own opinions I'll simply disagree.

@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:

Sure, but that's the company's fault for not having been properly staff. There is still NOTHING to sue him over, he's done literally nothing wrong.

Well, his actions caused significant damage to the company. Obviously, there is rarely any point in pursuing such a claim because of the deeper pocket principle, but the fact that his direct actions caused damages remains.

@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:

Ha, I was not. Way too expensive to be doing that stuff. But I could have been, and it would have been completely reasonable. If it would not have taken the core team away from production work.

I know CEOs that take out the trash. The "it's not my job" mentality is what makes other countries sound like bad unions. People think that they are better than the executives, and every else's job is beneath them.

Interesting. So a CEO calls you into his office, and tells you to wash the floor there. You'll simply do it, right?

@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:

Sue him for WHAT? He's allowed to quite ANY TIME. There is NOTHING to sue him over.

He was in the middle of a project, and his leaving made the company drop the project and lose millions due to missed deadlines and suing customers. Seen that happen, actually.

@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:

That's why the US is more able to respond to changes. We can hire people to do anything. I hire you to work on Windows today, but we change to Linux, you can't refuse to work on that, instead. You are free to quit, to demand different money, whatever.

You are hired to do IT work, the tech isn't usually mentioned. But in my experience, if a manager suddenly asks you to become a truck driver for the company, you can refuse. If he's not happy with that, he can fire you, and pay the lawful compensation.

It's insane to think that changes in company need can't be reflected in the existing staff, that makes the staff dramatically less valuable.

If a company I work for as a sysadmin suddenly decides I have to also be an accountant, I should be able to refuse, and if that leads to a termination, I should be compensated for the company's flimsiness, and not just get thrown out to the street

@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:

Stealing data is always a crime, there is no need for a contact about that. What country makes data theft legal? That's what is insane. It's unbelievable that you have countries that would enforce a contract, but not make theft illegal? That's nuts. Just steal the contract then and you can't be touched?

It isn't theft if I am an account manager, and I simply walk away to a competitor, and start calling the folks I've been selling to, and getting them to switch over to my new employer. Typically (yes, not in the US I suppose), you have a contract stating you cannot do that, or that you can't work for a direct competitor for X years after you leave. Not in a piece of paper somewhere, but in a contract you sign, if you want to work there.

@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:

Granted - most companies aren't going to ask their highly paid IT personal to scrub toilets, but it could happen.

And if that employee simply walks out because of that, and his leaving causes the company significant damage, the company can sue and win?

Hell - When the DC's Scott was in charge of flooded - I'd be surprised if he wasn't part of the cleanup crew of the datacenter. I'm sure that wasn't in his listed job duties, but he did it just the same - assuming he was part of that.

Oh, I'd be helping too in that case. I might as well have used another example (the manager demanding you make him coffee every day maybe, for example). My point is asking you to do something that is completely NOT in your job description.

@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:

Well - that would be pretty awesome - but in the US - you'd just as easily be out on your ass if you refused to do something they legally asked you to do (that didn't also endanger you or others).

The US sounds worse and worse with every post here

@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:

Why would you get a car working in IT? When do you need to drive anywhere? I don't even need a car to drive to work, let alone anywhere else.

In Israel, it was a standard benefit for all IT related employees. The idea was that anything in IT is considered a creative job, so if you suddenly have a great idea in the middle of the night, you just drive to the office and get to work on it (no remote jobs back in the 90s). The perk stuck around until it got taxed out of existence in 2007-2010-ish.

@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:

The law is what stops you from doing this - at least legally.

What law?

There typically is a piece of paper with this information on it - but it's not a signed thing generally. The paper states the terms of the employment (wages, benefits, vacation, etc) and general job duties, but again, are almost never limited only to those things listed.

The idea that a hired person is only doing one job - or one set of duties floors me. Sure, you might only want to be a programmer - but if the owner of the company comes in and asks you to do something, in the US, you're pretty much expected to do it - or risk being let go.

That is simply horrible.

@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:

In many if not most job descriptions in the US, it includes "additional duties as assigned." So yes, that means they can ask - and require - you to clean toilets... is that somehow beneath you?

Yes it is, if that is not in my job description. I've done my bit of menial labour when I had to, but I didn't study and build a career in IT to do things that are not my direct responsibility.

@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:

Been there, done that. Went "by the book" and escaped a job where nearly everyone stayed "forever" because they were threatened that if they left that they would destroy their lives (and often did.)

Yup, I know a few of the folks who left that horrid place. That's also the reason I'll be avoiding MSPs like the plague

@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:

This is just something that is not typical in the US.

I've worked for several US companies, but outside the US, and pretty much everywhere there is a version of what @Jimmy9008 described. My experience is in Ireland, UK, Russia, Israel and several Canadian provinces.

@Dashrender said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:

What's weird is the need for a contract for normal workers.

Our 'contracts' are just verbal - and fluid. If at any time one side or the other is unhappy... employment can be terminated - just walk away.

Of course those who hide behind the - oh they can't fire me/redundant me without paying me some money.. that's not good for the business.

It isn't about hiding behind anything, it's about protecting the employee and employer from each other. If you have no document stating what your job is, what's stopping the employer from telling you to wash the toilets one day, instead of doing your job? And what's stopping you from grabbing the employers' confidential data and running to the competition? NDA's and job descriptions are a typical part of any normal contract, and I mean "contract" as a document describing the employer-employee relationship, not necessarily with an outside contractor, but also with a full or part time employee. If you want to call that document by another name - please feel free to do so

@scottalanmiller said in Never Give More than Two Weeks Notice:

Most of the US is "at will" and supersedes any contracts. Employment can't be "at contact" for normal workers.

OK, that's just weird

@Jimmy9008 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:

In the UK it depends. If you are sacked due to gross misconduct you wont get any money. If you are made redundant, you will get a set amount based on length of employment (could be more, but by law its at least that set amount), and if you take voluntary redundancy, you get a package as setup by the former employer... so, it depends.

If you signed a contract for 3 months notice, usually you can negotiate to leave early if you really want. "Im going to give two months". But, if you just walk out you didnt mean your contractual obligations and that could have ramifications.

That's more what I'm used to seeing!