What is the Upside to VMware to the SMB?
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Here is the page that says that UK doesn't get support for Essentials. Maybe you used to and don't any longer?
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Checked Australia, same deal. US prices, no support.
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Not sure what you mean by Essentials doesn't include support. You can't buy support in the US? Like I said, I pay $59 a year for support. That's the basic support package as per the link.
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@Carnival-Boy said in What is the Upside to VMware to the SMB?:
Not sure what you mean by Essentials doesn't include support. You can't buy support in the US? Like I said, I pay $59 a year for support. That's the basic support package as per the link.
Yes, US and UK both allow you to buy support, but that's a separate cost and not part of Essentials. Essentials includes no support itself. If you want support, that is an additional cost above and beyond Essentials.
Basic Support is specifically not included in Essentials but only in Essentials Plus, which starts at $4500.
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@Carnival-Boy said in What is the Upside to VMware to the SMB?:
Like I said, I pay $59 a year for support. That's the basic support package as per the link.
You are getting quite the deal. The line item for both the US and UK is "required subscription" and does not include support until you pay ten times that amount. It's not a support fee, it's a mandatory fee to keep your systems licensed. If you stop paying it, you aren't allowed to keep running VMware. But it comes with no support. At least not officially. Maybe you got a special one time deal, maybe they supported you on accident, I have no idea. But I can't buy what you have for less than $4500 up front and $500 per year in either the US or the UK.
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Sorry, I keep misquoting the price. It's not $500/year. It is about $1,000 per year to get Basic support. Double what I was thinking.
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The pricing and support guide was screenshotted and posted. That's the current one for the US, UK and Australia (and I would guess everywhere else.) That's officially what we are able to get and what I would have to take to a manager to show what they would pay and what support they could count on.
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If you have a link to how to buy VMware ESXi Essentials with support for cheaper than VMware even lists the mandatory subscription, this is something that we need. That's a tiny fraction of the costs that we see from VMware in any market.
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For reference, when the new "no support" option became standard there were some questions about it. I've seen VMware clarify this many times that there is no support in Essentials (normally, at least.) Here is a VMware rep clarifying that Essentials has no support directly: https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/393637-vmware-vsphere-essentials-kits-support-subscription-options
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I think the other issue is convincing others of the benefits of hypervisors like XenServer or Hyper-V. I want to use Hyper-V or Xen for 2 new hosts that will have Citrix XenApp running but convincing management to move from ESXi is a struggle but I think this also comes from our MSP that likes ESXi and pushes that even in the FREE version.
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I think you're right. The renewal notice for my support contract said "Unlimited support requests. Quick resolutions to technical issues through remote support" and my contract say "Support and Subscription (SnS)", but the small print line details say "Subscription Only".
Carry on, people.
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@Carnival-Boy said in What is the Upside to VMware to the SMB?:
I think you're right. The renewal notice for my support contract said "Unlimited support requests. Quick resolutions to technical issues through remote support" and my contract say "Support and Subscription (SnS)", but the small print line details say "Subscription Only".
Carry on, people.
My guess is that this changed around 2013.
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@hobbit666 said in What is the Upside to VMware to the SMB?:
I think the other issue is convincing others of the benefits of hypervisors like XenServer or Hyper-V. I want to use Hyper-V or Xen for 2 new hosts that will have Citrix XenApp running but convincing management to move from ESXi is a struggle but I think this also comes from our MSP that likes ESXi and pushes that even in the FREE version.
That bit comes down to getting management to recognize their buyer's agents from their seller's agents. Once they realize that their MSP is really a VAR and is trying to make a quick buck selling them something, it should change their perspective quickly.
Not that VMware is always bad and anyone pushing it is trying to make a quick buck; only that an MSP making money by selling VMware isn't a trustworthy decision maker in this scenario.
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@scottalanmiller said in What is the Upside to VMware to the SMB?:
@hobbit666 said in What is the Upside to VMware to the SMB?:
I think the other issue is convincing others of the benefits of hypervisors like XenServer or Hyper-V. I want to use Hyper-V or Xen for 2 new hosts that will have Citrix XenApp running but convincing management to move from ESXi is a struggle but I think this also comes from our MSP that likes ESXi and pushes that even in the FREE version.
That bit comes down to getting management to recognize their buyer's agents from their seller's agents. Once they realize that their MSP is really a VAR and is trying to make a quick buck selling them something, it should change their perspective quickly.
Not that VMware is always bad and anyone pushing it is trying to make a quick buck; only that an MSP making money by selling VMware isn't a trustworthy decision maker in this scenario.
100% Agree - At the moment we are "reviewing" our ESXi farm that currently has a SAN, and we have outgrown it. Every time we talk the instant reaction is NEW SAN with some SSD's for SQL etc etc. I'm thinking no lets look at Hypercoverage or IaaS now
But yeah since I've started here and started to question things the IT manager has been a bit more on my side with thinking
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Good, solid cost and features analysis can go a long way.
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We certainly feel that KVM offers a high degree of value in the SMB space. Powerful, flexible and with good options for kernel level expansion like Scale's unique storage layer.
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@scottalanmiller said in What is the Upside to VMware to the SMB?:
Sorry, I keep misquoting the price. It's not $500/year. It is about $1,000 per year to get Basic support. Double what I was thinking.
Its only like $180 more to go from basic to production (24/7) for essentials plus.
There are other tiers of support that exist also that don't get as much attention...
BCS (Business Critical Support) Gives you a dedicated team (common in larger enterprises) among other benefits (TAM I think generally bundled at this level). Its like a co-pilot in that you'll have a team who knows your name (and you theirs). Only get a few people who are allowed to interface them on your side to keep it close. These guys don't sit in the normal queues and tend to be tied to a specific customer and maybe help with escalations in between things if I understand how they work. I don't think you ever see L1 people ever.
And the rare but prized "Mission Critical Support". Think this is a 250K minimum add-on, but it cuts your SLA from 1 hour to 30 minutes. I think you can also make people work non-production impacting cosmetic issues 24/7 and other crazy stuff.
VCAN also gets its own support perc's (Straight to L2).
For Oracle BCA Customers there is a secret hotline as Oracle gets weird on virtualization issues, and they will provide support to the app level or something crazy to keep Oracle at bay.
I think there might have been a special support org just for healthcare or something crazy also (Where every ticket can mean people dying, and applications like EPIC have bizarre needs).
Like all companies I assume there is a special federal queue for compliance/legal reasons etc.
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@John-Nicholson said in What is the Upside to VMware to the SMB?:
And the rare but prized "Mission Critical Support". Think this is a 250K minimum add-on, but it cuts your SLA from 1 hour to 30 minutes. I think you can also make people work non-production impacting cosmetic issues 24/7 and other crazy stuff.
Yeah, this is normally the option that I work with in the environments that I use VMware. This is where VMware support makes their bread and butter. The big shops that want serious support.
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@hobbit666 said in What is the Upside to VMware to the SMB?:
@scottalanmiller said in What is the Upside to VMware to the SMB?:
@hobbit666 said in What is the Upside to VMware to the SMB?:
I think the other issue is convincing others of the benefits of hypervisors like XenServer or Hyper-V. I want to use Hyper-V or Xen for 2 new hosts that will have Citrix XenApp running but convincing management to move from ESXi is a struggle but I think this also comes from our MSP that likes ESXi and pushes that even in the FREE version.
That bit comes down to getting management to recognize their buyer's agents from their seller's agents. Once they realize that their MSP is really a VAR and is trying to make a quick buck selling them something, it should change their perspective quickly.
Not that VMware is always bad and anyone pushing it is trying to make a quick buck; only that an MSP making money by selling VMware isn't a trustworthy decision maker in this scenario.
100% Agree - At the moment we are "reviewing" our ESXi farm that currently has a SAN, and we have outgrown it. Every time we talk the instant reaction is NEW SAN with some SSD's for SQL etc etc. I'm thinking no lets look at Hypercoverage or IaaS now
But yeah since I've started here and started to question things the IT manager has been a bit more on my side with thinking
To be fair, Flash drives are at ~50 cents per GB from Dell even, so unless your buying archive storage your getting flash today. Its why when looking at HCI I always say look for something where you can add drives later as this stuff gets cheaper/faster.
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@scottalanmiller said in What is the Upside to VMware to the SMB?:
VMware has a much better support reputation, of course, but pay as you go product support tends to be bad.
Its a lot easier to have a support reputation when you have a HCL, and you have signed agreements from the partners that they will support and ship firmware's for said hardware etc. The devil of any hypervisor is dealing with hardware and having someone's name in blood to hold over their head when their stuff breaks is handy...
