Is Microsoft the New Apple?
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@Dashrender said:
Scott, how are those west coast companies managing those Macs? For updates, local access control, etc? Is file sharing all done though drop box and the like? email through web only services, maybe O365 or Rackspace?
Updates are automatic on all modern systems, so that's a no brainer. Local access control is often handled by local accounts and one to one deployments (no sharing of computers like Windows users and Chromebooks users tend to do.) When I first talked to Pertino, for example, they had no idea that companies actually had logins that could be applied to more than one computer - on much of the west coast laptops and desktops are treated like mobile devices with a single login and single user per device. Not that I like that model, but it is often how it is. This makes AD not really useful.
Of course email is hosted, it would be unthinkable in a modern business to have in house email. It would never even come up as a possibility to have on-premises email out here. People would be shocked to find out that people still have that let alone still consider deploying something like that. Not that there aren't good times to have it, but out here, on premises email is a long forgot vestige.
File sharing is, in my experience even with NTG, becoming more rare. I just see less and less of it. That allows tools like Office 365 or Google Apps to really work well. Those are what I see the most of. Of course shops doing media editing need something more than that. But people doing docs, spreadsheets, presentations.... that is all that they need.
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Servers on premises are rare out here too. They exist, but are much less common. The west coast is much more focused on good hosting and good WAN links.
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We are seeing more and more of our SMB customers back away from on premise anything. We often get questions on why do they need to keep up with their AD environment as well.
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It's a new trend, but AD is rapidly dissolving as a needed service. It used to be the core of single sign on but today, as almost nothing easily connects to AD but easily connect to each other, the need for AD is fading away very rapidly. It has gone from a central connector to often being little more than a handy desktop password management system.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Servers on premises are rare out here too. They exist, but are much less common. The west coast is much more focused on good hosting and good WAN links.
If you're doing everything in the cloud, be it O365 or Google docs, what do you really need a server for? Chances are that server can be pushed offsite to Rackspace/Azure/Amazon, so again, why would you need it.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Updates are automatic on all modern systems, so that's a no brainer.
Sure but how do you report on that for any kind of compliance? Even without compliance requirements, do you really consider this good enough for your business? if so, why? and if not, why not?
Local access control is often handled by local accounts and one to one deployments (no sharing of computers like Windows users and Chromebooks users tend to do.) When I first talked to Pertino, for example, they had no idea that companies actually had logins that could be applied to more than one computer - on much of the west coast laptops and desktops are treated like mobile devices with a single login and single user per device. Not that I like that model, but it is often how it is. This makes AD not really useful.
While in corporate America even not on the west coast this is pretty true, one device one user, healthcare as an example this is simply not the case. Though what happens when the receptionist goes on vacation for week? Does the receptionist really have a laptop? My front desk space (along with most Dr's offices I've been to don't have the space to hookup a laptop to a screen, the whole space would have to be retrofit to support them, unless you whole sale replace the desktop/screen/full sized keyboard with a laptop only - and call me old fashion, that just seems wrong.
Of course email is hosted, it would be unthinkable in a modern business to have in house email. It would never even come up as a possibility to have on-premises email out here. People would be shocked to find out that people still have that let alone still consider deploying something like that. Not that there aren't good times to have it, but out here, on premises email is a long forgot vestige.
I knew this answer before I even asked
File sharing is, in my experience even with NTG, becoming more rare. I just see less and less of it. That allows tools like Office 365 or Google Apps to really work well. Those are what I see the most of. Of course shops doing media editing need something more than that. But people doing docs, spreadsheets, presentations.... that is all that they need.
Are you saying that document creation is happening in O365 and shared through O365 so there's really no file storage like the old days really needed? I can see that, assuming it's as easy to grant access and find other people's files when they are unavailable.
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@Minion-Queen said:
We are seeing more and more of our SMB customers back away from on premise anything. We often get questions on why do they need to keep up with their AD environment as well.
If you're in a one to one or BYOD environment, I see why AD becomes less important, especially if you move everything to O365.
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Are you saying that document creation is happening in O365 and shared through O365 so there's really no file storage like the old days really needed? I can see that, assuming it's as easy to grant access and find other people's files when they are unavailable.
We use Office365 for documents that may need to be shared across multiple people.
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@scottalanmiller said:
It's a new trend, but AD is rapidly dissolving as a needed service. It used to be the core of single sign on but today, as almost nothing easily connects to AD but easily connect to each other, the need for AD is fading away very rapidly. It has gone from a central connector to often being little more than a handy desktop password management system.
It's to bad federated services didn't take off more - I'd love to have a nearly global identity that isn't from google or facebook.
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If MS wanted to make serious cash, they'd update AD and make it relevant to other OS's somehow. When managing a fleet of hardware it's a serious PITA to have non-compliant stuff around. I've got AD for MS, and then it dissolves into a morass of generic accounts, specific accounts, user accounts and all sorts of other junk to cover iPads, OSX, linux.... what a mess & headache.
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@MattSpeller said:
If MS wanted to make serious cash, they'd update AD and make it relevant to other OS's somehow. When managing a fleet of hardware it's a serious PITA to have non-compliant stuff around. I've got AD for MS, and then it dissolves into a morass of generic accounts, specific accounts, user accounts and all sorts of other junk to cover iPads, OSX, linux.... what a mess & headache.
This lends into the constant discussion of controlling mobile devices. I realize that a mobile device like a iPhone/iPad/Android tablet, etc all generally a single user device, but when this device is used for a business, I should haven't have to purchase additional tools to mange them. The same tools I use to manage PCs should manage these mobile devices as well.
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@Dashrender said:
This lends into the constant discussion of controlling mobile devices. I realize that a mobile device like a iPhone/iPad/Android tablet, etc all generally a single user device, but when this device is used for a business, I should haven't have to purchase additional tools to mange them. The same tools I use to manage PCs should manage these mobile devices as well.
Why? They are completely different types of things. And most desktop management is paid for twice, once with the device and one with the CAL.
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OK fine make me buy a CAL for the mobile device - and why do you view it as a different type of thing. It's a computer - it reads email, it has apps. The primary difference between a phone a laptop/desktop is the size of the screen/the OS it's running and probably the ownership.
Shops that are moving to DVI, what do they do? I'm guessing they are looking to primarily only provide web based services or VDI. These prevent most virus infections and allow content control while using your own device. In those cases you don't worry about do they have up to date AV, patches, etc because you're business is protected by the mechanism you provide access to the users through.
Which brings me back to why am I worrying about mobile devices at all. I'm worried about them being stolen primarily. If they are loaded up with PHI then I need to ensure that the device is encrypted and password protected and also the ability to remotely wipe them. If I can remove these concerns by removing the data from the device and only accessing when I'm online and it's never stored on the device then I would say we don't need to worry about it.
Of course, these devices aren't windows devices (unless you have a windows phone), but come on does that really matter today? As you mentioned, buy a CAL, I'm happy to do that. MS gets paid to support the standard mobile platforms that are out there through my purchase of a CAL for that device.
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@Dashrender said:
OK fine make me buy a CAL for the mobile device - and why do you view it as a different type of thing. It's a computer - it reads email, it has apps. The primary difference between a phone a laptop/desktop is the size of the screen/the OS it's running and probably the ownership.
One is a general purpose, multi-user, user centric application platform. The other is a specific purpose, single user, device centric platform.
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@Dashrender said:
Shops that are moving to DVI, what do they do? I'm guessing they are looking to primarily only provide web based services or VDI.
DVI? -
The biggest difference between a Windows desktop and a phone is that you pay for one twice, in the OS license and the CAL. You don't do this for a phone. Remember that AD won't work with free and consumer version of the Windows desktop OS either.
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@Dashrender said:
Which brings me back to why am I worrying about mobile devices at all. I'm worried about them being stolen primarily. If they are loaded up with PHI then I need to ensure that the device is encrypted and password protected and also the ability to remotely wipe them. If I can remove these concerns by removing the data from the device and only accessing when I'm online and it's never stored on the device then I would say we don't need to worry about it.
That's the same magic that moving away from file servers gets you. Pretty rarely does any new business need to store things on a desktop or laptop anymore. I haven't had a real need to do that in a decade. I realize that I tend to be ahead of the curve, but that is a LOT ahead of the curve. The need to store files on the laptop for normal people is pretty minor. Unless you do something semi-unique like video editing.
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@Dashrender said:
Of course, these devices aren't windows devices (unless you have a windows phone), but come on does that really matter today? As you mentioned, buy a CAL, I'm happy to do that. MS gets paid to support the standard mobile platforms that are out there through my purchase of a CAL for that device.
That pays for only part of it. Normally they make $100 for the OEM sticker and then the CAL is additional to that plus the server license. The CAL is nowhere near the entire price and just one part of the cost picture. This is to make the cost model more sensible for many different potential use cases, but the tradeoff is that it is confusing and can appear that buying a CAL pays for the cost of management, but it does not.
Would you be happy to pay $100 per phone each time a phone was added to management AND buy a CAL for each user who might use any of the phones? If not, you aren't really happy with the current pricing model for that stuff.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
OK fine make me buy a CAL for the mobile device - and why do you view it as a different type of thing. It's a computer - it reads email, it has apps. The primary difference between a phone a laptop/desktop is the size of the screen/the OS it's running and probably the ownership.
One is a general purpose, multi-user, user centric application platform. The other is a specific purpose, single user, device centric platform.
While that is true, it's clearly not the considered norm, at least by the new tech companies - your example of Pertino is proof of that.
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
OK fine make me buy a CAL for the mobile device - and why do you view it as a different type of thing. It's a computer - it reads email, it has apps. The primary difference between a phone a laptop/desktop is the size of the screen/the OS it's running and probably the ownership.
One is a general purpose, multi-user, user centric application platform. The other is a specific purpose, single user, device centric platform.
While that is true, it's clearly not the considered norm, at least by the new tech companies - your example of Pertino is proof of that.
That may be true, but I doubt that it is yet the norm. I was talking about modern west coast companies, remember. Also, remember, that AD doesn't apply in those scenarios at all. So where AD applies, that model does not. AD is designed around the other model, multiple users. That's its primary function.
