Dealing with the Universal Job Discriminant: Age
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@IRJ said:
@ajstringham said:
@IRJ said:
@ajstringham said:
@IRJ said:
@ajstringham said:
@IRJ said:
@ajstringham You'll view things a little differently when you get older and more experienced
In what context?
You know how to do XYZ at work but are never given the chance so you can’t list skills you have as something you’ve utilized in a business environment.You don't really know how to do anything until you do it on a live environment with many variables. You may know concepts, but you things never go as planned in home lab scenarios.
I'm aware of that. Experience in terms of troubleshooting exact/weird scenarios comes with age and time, but still, there are plenty of people who are way more qualified, even say without as much of that, than someone 20 years their senior.
GIven the choice, I would rather hire someone that has seen the weird scenarios that come up. Otherwise anyone else can use google.
Still, some people are more technical qualified, and have greater aptitude. That's what I'm getting at.
Which is why they will pay their dues and gain experience before expecting a Lv2 or 3 position. They will get more pay and be more valued with experience
The argument of what "paying your dues" means varies. Some seem to think it means a decade, others think a year or two. I still don't have a definitive decision on it, only that when the person is qualified, age shouldn't be a factor.
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If anything in IT young might be favored.
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As a Manager something I hear a lot in business training classes is avoid hiring anyone under the age of 25. You will deal with entitlement issues and lack of maturity.
As a manager I have seen the young one who is awesome and is mature and settled but far more of the unable to handle the day to day structure of working in a real job.
So I do understand the paying your dues bit. You have to prove your reliability more than your abilities to do a job these days.
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@Minion-Queen said:
As a Manager something I hear a lot in business training classes is avoid hiring anyone under the age of 25. You will deal with entitlement issues and lack of maturity.
As a manager I have seen the young one who is awesome and is mature and settled but far more of the unable to handle the day to day structure of working in a real job.
So I do understand the paying your dues bit. You have to prove your reliability more than your abilities to do a job these days.
That I will agree with. Very well said.
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I know lots of huge companies that prefer to hire under 25 to avoid culture issues.
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@Reid-Cooper said:
I know lots of huge companies that prefer to hire under 25 to avoid culture issues.
I'd be very curious to know the names of some of those companies.
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@ajstringham One thing that a lot of places get wrong though is equating young = best too.
Just because a millennial knows how to tweet, like, use a forum doesn't mean they are geniuses waiting to be tapped for knowledge and success.
I agree with Danielle here, sometimes there are professions that require a level of demonstrated maturity and reliability and unfortunately and more often than not, younger people tend to be more impulsive / reactive than calm, cool, collected and precise.
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@Bill-Kindle said:
@ajstringham One thing that a lot of places get wrong though is equating young = best too.
Just because a millennial knows how to tweet, like, use a forum doesn't mean they are geniuses waiting to be tapped for knowledge and success.
I agree with Danielle here, sometimes there are professions that require a level of demonstrated maturity and reliability and unfortunately and more often than not, younger people tend to be more impulsive / reactive than calm, cool, collected and precise.
Fair enough.
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@Reid-Cooper said:
I know lots of huge companies that prefer to hire under 25 to avoid culture issues.
Here in our company most of the employes are Young
from range of 18 to 25 years old.
the oldest are 30 to 35 most of them are Supervisors and Leaders.
I am not sure if what is the real reason why they hired young people. -
@Bill-Kindle said:
@ajstringham One thing that a lot of places get wrong though is equating young = best too.
Just because a millennial knows how to tweet, like, use a forum doesn't mean they are geniuses waiting to be tapped for knowledge and success.
I agree with Danielle here, sometimes there are professions that require a level of demonstrated maturity and reliability and unfortunately and more often than not, younger people tend to be more impulsive / reactive than calm, cool, collected and precise.
Yep, use of technology isn't really what Information Technology is about in that regards. Maybe it will help them out at the small computer shop, staples, bestbuy, officemax etc but not so much in true IT jobs.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@Bill-Kindle said:
@ajstringham One thing that a lot of places get wrong though is equating young = best too.
Just because a millennial knows how to tweet, like, use a forum doesn't mean they are geniuses waiting to be tapped for knowledge and success.
I agree with Danielle here, sometimes there are professions that require a level of demonstrated maturity and reliability and unfortunately and more often than not, younger people tend to be more impulsive / reactive than calm, cool, collected and precise.
Yep, use of technology isn't really what Information Technology is about in that regards. Maybe it will help them out at the small computer shop, staples, bestbuy, officemax etc but not so much in true IT jobs.
Agreed.
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@Minion-Queen said:
As a Manager something I hear a lot in business training classes is avoid hiring anyone under the age of 25. You will deal with entitlement issues and lack of maturity.
As a manager I have seen the young one who is awesome and is mature and settled but far more of the unable to handle the day to day structure of working in a real job.
So I do understand the paying your dues bit. You have to prove your reliability more than your abilities to do a job these days.
That's really interesting. Didn't you employ a young @ajstringham? So I guess you don't believe in the over 25 rule?
In the UK, such a policy would be illegal under the Equality Act, although it blatantly still happens. I'm recruiting at the moment, and my job spec states a requirement for at least 12 months experience. HR thought that even this may not be legal, as it discriminates against young people who are too young to have any experience. What's the law in the US?
I'd prefer someone with a few years of experience, but my budget doesn't stretch to getting someone who is both experienced and competent - it's an either or. But given my limited budget, I'd prefer a 21 year old who left school at 18 and has worked for three years over someone straight out of university who has never worked, but unfortunately no-one who fits that category has applied. So I'm going to have to house-train them, which isn't my forte.
Any tips from the minion expert?
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You can't discriminate on age in the US either (though it happens all the time). X number of years of experience is extremely common for higher end jobs, so you could easily make 10 years experience a requirement which is 99% of cases make your youngest applicants 26-28, but most would probably be 33+.
To the best of my understanding this would not be age discrimination, in the US
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@Carnival-Boy said:
@Minion-Queen said:
As a Manager something I hear a lot in business training classes is avoid hiring anyone under the age of 25. You will deal with entitlement issues and lack of maturity.
As a manager I have seen the young one who is awesome and is mature and settled but far more of the unable to handle the day to day structure of working in a real job.
So I do understand the paying your dues bit. You have to prove your reliability more than your abilities to do a job these days.
That's really interesting. Didn't you employ a young @ajstringham? So I guess you don't believe in the over 25 rule?
In the UK, such a policy would be illegal under the Equality Act, although it blatantly still happens. I'm recruiting at the moment, and my job spec states a requirement for at least 12 months experience. HR thought that even this may not be legal, as it discriminates against young people who are too young to have any experience. What's the law in the US?
I'd prefer someone with a few years of experience, but my budget doesn't stretch to getting someone who is both experienced and competent - it's an either or. But given my limited budget, I'd prefer a 21 year old who left school at 18 and has worked for three years over someone straight out of university who has never worked, but unfortunately no-one who fits that category has applied. So I'm going to have to house-train them, which isn't my forte.
Any tips from the minion expert?
I was barely 20 when I was hired. I turned 20 in September 2012 and was hired the first Monday of November 2012. So yes, I was pretty young. I impressed the socks off of @Minion-Queen when I first met her though. I was more of an exception, although @FiyaFly works for NTG (at my recommendation) and he's younger than I am.
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@Dashrender said:
You can't discriminate on age in the US either (though it happens all the time). X number of years of experience is extremely common for higher end jobs, so you could easily make 10 years experience a requirement which is 99% of cases make your youngest applicants 26-28, but most would probably be 33+.
To the best of my understanding this would not be age discrimination, in the US
I don't think it's discrimination. However, I think that the number of years of experience can be misleading at times. Some people have 3 years experience but have L1-Engineer experience. Other people have 10 years experience, all at L1. It's a case-by-case scenario.
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I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but even though I'm 24... I really don't want to work with overly-ambitious FOB kids, or older crotchety folks either. I think age may be a discriminant for some companies, but I'd rather not work at those places regardless in all honesty.
I enjoy working around down to earth, communicative, bright individuals regardless of age... that keep work/home separate but can also grab a brew after the work's done. Luckily I hate managing so that'll never be my problem.
