I have to change cloud drive service yet again
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@wirestyle22 said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I came in the office this morning immediately greeted with "you need to check the cloud..." because once again, somebody claims they moved files from one folder to another, and they DID move and sync, they saw it happen, but 3 days later all the files were magically moved back to their original location.
I don't even know under what conditions something like this could happen, it's like an "undo" event or something. My thoughts are that some other computer which was maybe turned off or hadn't synced in a while, uploaded its files back? Some kind of time stamp issue? I've checked all the computer's clocks but who knows.Wouldn't this create two files at worst? It's not going to overwrite a file or folder in a different folder
You'd think. At worst computer 2 would upload those files back to original folders, and not touch the 2nd folder where they were moved to. But nay nay.
Almost everything connected to NC is an always-on workstation. But we do have have a couple home laptops that come on every once in again. But if this were the case, we'd be dealing with dozens of messed up files, not just occasional reversals like this event.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@wirestyle22 said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I came in the office this morning immediately greeted with "you need to check the cloud..." because once again, somebody claims they moved files from one folder to another, and they DID move and sync, they saw it happen, but 3 days later all the files were magically moved back to their original location.
I don't even know under what conditions something like this could happen, it's like an "undo" event or something. My thoughts are that some other computer which was maybe turned off or hadn't synced in a while, uploaded its files back? Some kind of time stamp issue? I've checked all the computer's clocks but who knows.Wouldn't this create two files at worst? It's not going to overwrite a file or folder in a different folder
You'd think. At worst computer 2 would upload those files back to original folders, and not touch the 2nd folder where they were moved to. But nay nay.
Almost everything connected to NC is an always-on workstation. But we do have have a couple home laptops that come on every once in again. But if this were the case, we'd be dealing with dozens of messed up files, not just occasional reversals like this event.
I have never seen a reversal of anything I've ever done in Nextcloud. How many users are accessing it?
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@wirestyle22 said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@wirestyle22 said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I came in the office this morning immediately greeted with "you need to check the cloud..." because once again, somebody claims they moved files from one folder to another, and they DID move and sync, they saw it happen, but 3 days later all the files were magically moved back to their original location.
I don't even know under what conditions something like this could happen, it's like an "undo" event or something. My thoughts are that some other computer which was maybe turned off or hadn't synced in a while, uploaded its files back? Some kind of time stamp issue? I've checked all the computer's clocks but who knows.Wouldn't this create two files at worst? It's not going to overwrite a file or folder in a different folder
You'd think. At worst computer 2 would upload those files back to original folders, and not touch the 2nd folder where they were moved to. But nay nay.
Almost everything connected to NC is an always-on workstation. But we do have have a couple home laptops that come on every once in again. But if this were the case, we'd be dealing with dozens of messed up files, not just occasional reversals like this event.
I have never seen a reversal of anything I've ever done in Nextcloud. How many users are accessing it?
About 11 users, maybe 18 devices. NC was latest version up until 14 dropped recently. Runs on a VULTR Ubuntu box.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@wirestyle22 said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@wirestyle22 said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I came in the office this morning immediately greeted with "you need to check the cloud..." because once again, somebody claims they moved files from one folder to another, and they DID move and sync, they saw it happen, but 3 days later all the files were magically moved back to their original location.
I don't even know under what conditions something like this could happen, it's like an "undo" event or something. My thoughts are that some other computer which was maybe turned off or hadn't synced in a while, uploaded its files back? Some kind of time stamp issue? I've checked all the computer's clocks but who knows.Wouldn't this create two files at worst? It's not going to overwrite a file or folder in a different folder
You'd think. At worst computer 2 would upload those files back to original folders, and not touch the 2nd folder where they were moved to. But nay nay.
Almost everything connected to NC is an always-on workstation. But we do have have a couple home laptops that come on every once in again. But if this were the case, we'd be dealing with dozens of messed up files, not just occasional reversals like this event.
I have never seen a reversal of anything I've ever done in Nextcloud. How many users are accessing it?
About 11 users, maybe 18 devices. NC was latest version up until 14 dropped recently. Runs on a VULTR Ubuntu box.
That's very few. I was assuming hundreds here.
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@scottalanmiller said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@wirestyle22 said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@wirestyle22 said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I came in the office this morning immediately greeted with "you need to check the cloud..." because once again, somebody claims they moved files from one folder to another, and they DID move and sync, they saw it happen, but 3 days later all the files were magically moved back to their original location.
I don't even know under what conditions something like this could happen, it's like an "undo" event or something. My thoughts are that some other computer which was maybe turned off or hadn't synced in a while, uploaded its files back? Some kind of time stamp issue? I've checked all the computer's clocks but who knows.Wouldn't this create two files at worst? It's not going to overwrite a file or folder in a different folder
You'd think. At worst computer 2 would upload those files back to original folders, and not touch the 2nd folder where they were moved to. But nay nay.
Almost everything connected to NC is an always-on workstation. But we do have have a couple home laptops that come on every once in again. But if this were the case, we'd be dealing with dozens of messed up files, not just occasional reversals like this event.
I have never seen a reversal of anything I've ever done in Nextcloud. How many users are accessing it?
About 11 users, maybe 18 devices. NC was latest version up until 14 dropped recently. Runs on a VULTR Ubuntu box.
That's very few. I was assuming hundreds here.
Same
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Hard to imagine NextCloud having these kinds of issues at that kind of scale.
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Ya nothing makes sense. I can't imagine any file operations being "reversed" that aren't user-caused, except for some kind of bug in NC. A glitch in the database or some kind of operation performing maintenance?
I made sure the server met all specs and requirements, I even upgraded the VULTR box once already, performance wise it's running like a champ as far as CPU and RAM.
Last week I connected a couple computers to WebDav, and naturally I come in this morning to a big error that Windows can't connect to the network location, bla bla. I have to go troubleshoot and then delete and recreate the connection.
This is the kinda crap I'm trying to avoid, I can't have people coming in and randomly losing the whole thing. I keep stressing "robust".
I need a cloud that's built as if people actually need to use it. -
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
except for some kind of bug in NC
What you are experiencing none of us have experienced though
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
I need a cloud that's built as if people actually need to use it.
I don't think Vultr is part of your issues.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Ya nothing makes sense. I can't imagine any file operations being "reversed" that aren't user-caused..
Safe to assume that this is the issue. If you've not witnessed it first hand, that's definitely what it is.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Ya nothing makes sense. I can't imagine any file operations being "reversed" that aren't user-caused, except for some kind of bug in NC. A glitch in the database or some kind of operation performing maintenance?
If you're using the sync client for everyone. It doesn't take rocket science.
Server -> Client 1 -> Original files ->
-> Client 2 -> Original files -> edits file1.xml -> syncs to Server
-> Client 1 sees different file -> check timestamps -> 'newest' file is kept. Only in this case, the "newest" file is Client1's version because time/date is not correct somewhere.Not always the case, but happens often. Which is one reason everyone is saying to not use the Nextcloud client to sync shared files.
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@travisdh1 said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Not always the case, but happens often. Which is one reason everyone is saying to not use the Nextcloud client to sync shared files.
Saying not to use it in this fashion. I use the client on hundreds of systems without this issue. because I don't have 5 people trying to write over each other like it is a local shared file.
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Maybe you need an onsite NC setup for the majority of users, and the remote access/sync for the others.
Is your internet connection stable and robust? perhaps it's faltering and causing sync issues?
Sync in a multi-user environment - yeah good luck. Sure tons of people claim they have it working - you're experience is not unique. The current reality is that it simply doesn't exist like your boss wants/thinks it should.
You've already kinda shown him that, you've tested multiple solutions, from some pretty huge names, and none of them work. Their advertising is borderline false.
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Plus they lose all the local computer shortcuts for renaming and moving files around, creating them etc. They have to learn a whole new series of tasks for working with files in the web.
If that were the only choice, then sure, but it's not the only choice.
As mentioned above, you've shown there is no choice because the "options" aren't real - they are all just window dressing for your use case.
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The thing is, it's not about just two people editing over each other. NC handles that with a conflict file.
The operation that keeps causing people trouble is either renaming a file, in which the old name comes back to life. Or moving a file, in which it reverses and goes back to where it was.In some cases when they rename and move a file, we end up with the same file existing in BOTH folders. I would assume easily in this case they simply copied rather than moved, but the employee is adamant, swears under oath, they did CTRL-X and not CTRL-C to move it. They'll even say they "saw the file disappear" when they cut it. Of course, the files don't actually disappear in Windows, they just kind of turn greyed out.
So it's my word versus theirs. My insistence the software works right and they probably just copied, versus their word they swear they cut it. And guess who wins the hey-said/she-said? Not the IT dept that's for sure. Everybody blames the cloud, and by extension me, and thus I have to go find another cloud provider until we never have issues and nothing is ever broken.
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Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?
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@Obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?
Using the NextCloud Sync client, all the files are already local on their drives. So the users are using CTRL-X to cut files and paste them into other folders. And occasionally, those file operations reverse and a moved file goes back to where it was. Or a renamed files gets reversed. Or worse, a renamed and moved file because a duplicate in its original folder, leaving us with 2 copies with multiple names.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@Obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?
Using the NextCloud Sync client, all the files are already local on their drives. So the users are using CTRL-X to cut files and paste them into other folders. And occasionally, those file operations reverse and a moved file goes back to where it was. Or a renamed files gets reversed. Or worse, a renamed and moved file because a duplicate in its original folder, leaving us with 2 copies with multiple names.
That's the issue.
If a file is on a bunch of different computers, someone moves it on their local synced folder, NC will have to tell it to move or rename on everyone else's computer too... and perhaps not everyone else's computer is online at that time or syncing to NC. And that person may end up making changes, moving, or renaming before it gets a chance to sync first.
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@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@Obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?
Using the NextCloud Sync client, all the files are already local on their drives. So the users are using CTRL-X to cut files and paste them into other folders. And occasionally, those file operations reverse and a moved file goes back to where it was. Or a renamed files gets reversed. Or worse, a renamed and moved file because a duplicate in its original folder, leaving us with 2 copies with multiple names.
yeah, that's a behavioural thing that has to stop. Has to, period. Simply isn't something that they can do when using that kind of system, any system like that.
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@scottalanmiller said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@guyinpv said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
@Obsolesce said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Users aren't saving a copy to their hard drive, then putting it back after someone else moves or renames it?
Using the NextCloud Sync client, all the files are already local on their drives. So the users are using CTRL-X to cut files and paste them into other folders. And occasionally, those file operations reverse and a moved file goes back to where it was. Or a renamed files gets reversed. Or worse, a renamed and moved file because a duplicate in its original folder, leaving us with 2 copies with multiple names.
yeah, that's a behavioural thing that has to stop. Has to, period. Simply isn't something that they can do when using that kind of system, any system like that.
Exactly - You're not in a SMB file share type situation anymore - they can't work like they used to no matter how much it kinda looks like the old system.
They have to change their behavior regardless - so why not change it to the best operating solution? Of course, you'll have to determine what that is.
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@Dashrender said in I have to change cloud drive service yet again:
Maybe you need an onsite NC setup for the majority of users, and the remote access/sync for the others.
Has he answered this question yet? I haven't seen it and I keep looking for it. In the other thread he mentioned that they have no problem spending some money on hardware... If it's all under one roof buy a new NAS and just run one sync client there.
