Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?
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@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
I'd need less technical people to be able to do some management when I'm not around.
This alone would be a vote for simpler KVM over complex and difficult Hyper-V. If you get everything set up and nothing goes wrong, the two will be roughly equal. But if something goes wrong, KVM is vastly simpler to maintain.
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@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
The Starwind tech was suggesting that the free Hyper-V Server wouldn't be suitable for the HCA for licensing reasons ....
Something is wrong as there is one and only one Hyper-V Server, and it is free. Hyper-V has no non-free option. There is no license for Hyper-V.
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@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
VMWare would be a little more expensive but I do have more experience with it. This is quite a bit more expensive than option 1 but provides HA obviously which would be nice but not essential.
Hyper-V, KVM, and Xen all do HA for free. VMware is unique in that HA is not free.
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@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
Is there something else I should be looking at that provides option 1 or 2 at lesser cost/complexity?
Without more details as to what is driving decisions, I'd use KVM, Starwind, and Veeam agent based. Takes all of your big complexities, and several of your costs, and removes them.
- Simpler than Hyper-V, and marginally better performance.
- Starwind's key platform focus.
- Solves the issues of unsupported applications and workloads for agentless backup.
- Makes your workloads platform agnostic, a key problem with agentless backup approaches.
- Simplifies everything, provides for free tools instead of costly ones to make Hyper-V usable.
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Look @scottalanmiller came in to push his current shiny thing again!
#shockface :astonished_face:
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@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
Look @scottalanmiller came in to push his current shiny thing again!
#shockface :astonished_face:
If it's a good solution and solves problems he's facing with his proposed solution, it would be wrong not to bring it up. He specifically listed problems with his current approach and asked what he might do to improve it.
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I was on a call with Starwind this morning including a sales person and a techie. KVM wasn't mentioned as an option. Perhaps that's because we were discussing the Hyper Converged Appliance and KVM isn't currently an option there. I'm honestly not sure though, I'd have expected them to mention it if it was going to be their focus in the future.
I was looking at the appliance because the price I was quoted for just the VSAN product i.e. the software without any of the hardware, was almost as much as the appliance (and for less usable storage space).
I know Starwind do the free version but since it lacks the management application I was sceptical about using this due to the fact I'd need less technical people to support it in my absence.
Agent versus agentless backups isn't a driving factor for me. I mentioned it because it's something I currently have. I'm not ideologically wedded to it.
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@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
I was on a call with Starwind this morning including a sales person and a techie. KVM wasn't mentioned as an option. Perhaps that's because we were discussing the Hyper Converged Appliance and KVM isn't currently an option there.
That would do it, yes.
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@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
. I'm honestly not sure though, I'd have expected them to mention it if it was going to be their focus in the future.
I got is straight from the horse's mouth at the time that I posted it. He definitely supersedes anyone you had on the phone.
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@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
Agent versus agentless backups isn't a driving factor for me. I mentioned it because it's something I currently have. I'm not ideologically wedded to it.
Don't switch if you don't have to, but keep in mind that agent based is just as good and just as supported. So if the right options don't allow for agentless, don't sweat it.
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@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
I was looking at the appliance because the price I was quoted for just the VSAN product i.e. the software without any of the hardware, was almost as much as the appliance (and for less usable storage space).
I know Starwind do the free version but since it lacks the management application I was sceptical about using this due to the fact I'd need less technical people to support it in my absence.
In theory, that's how it should work. Basically the hardware is a wash and the software and support costs (it's all support costs actually) should be the same.
If Hyper-V is the right choice here, that's not a surprise. And if it is because it is part of the appliance, in a lot of ways you can ignore it. A server with a hypervisor is not exactly the same as an appliance with one. The appliance is a "black box" in theory and how it does its magic is of no concern, until it is exposed to you, if that makes sense.
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@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
I want to setup a resilient two node virtualisation host production system.
So the goal is not for high-availability, but for host redundancy?
If that's the case, two Hyper-V hosts with the built-in replication just works, and works well.
Just keep in mind that going that direction, you could have between 30 seconds and 15 minutes of permanent data loss should you decide to spin up a replica if primary host dies. (unplanned fail-over)
However, planned-failover is a nice to have if live migration isn't suitable.
Being all Linux guests, no need to worry about licensing (so long as there's no software running on top of it with weird restrictions).
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@scottalanmiller said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
If Hyper-V is the right choice here, that's not a surprise. And if it is because it is part of the appliance, in a lot of ways you can ignore it. A server with a hypervisor is not exactly the same as an appliance with one. The appliance is a "black box" in theory and how it does its magic is of no concern, until it is exposed to you, if that makes sense.
Yes that's how I've been trying to think about the appliance. Also since it comes with Active Support from Starwind, in theory my worry about less technical people having to support this when I'm away becomes less relevant. In fact, theoretically I would barely need to support it
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@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
@scottalanmiller said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
If Hyper-V is the right choice here, that's not a surprise. And if it is because it is part of the appliance, in a lot of ways you can ignore it. A server with a hypervisor is not exactly the same as an appliance with one. The appliance is a "black box" in theory and how it does its magic is of no concern, until it is exposed to you, if that makes sense.
Yes that's how I've been trying to think about the appliance. Also since it comes with Active Support from Starwind, in theory my worry about less technical people having to support this when I'm away becomes less relevant. In fact, theoretically I would barely need to support it
Yup, that's a great way to go for exactly that purpose.
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@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
in conversation with Starwind about their Hyper Converged App
Oh so he doesn't already have the hardware?
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@obsolesce said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
I want to setup a resilient two node virtualisation host production system.
So the goal is not for high-availability, but for host redundancy?
If that's the case, two Hyper-V hosts with the built-in replication just works, and works well.
Just keep in mind that going that direction, you could have between 30 seconds and 15 minutes of permanent data loss should you decide to spin up a replica if primary host dies. (unplanned fail-over)
However, planned-failover is a nice to have if live migration isn't suitable.
Being all Linux guests, no need to worry about licensing (so long as there's no software running on top of it with weird restrictions).
Yes HA would be nice but I suspect we don't really need it. However when it's available (see what I did there?) for a price that doesn't break the budget then it becomes tempting.
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@obsolesce said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
in conversation with Starwind about their Hyper Converged App
Oh so he doesn't already have the hardware?
He does not.
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May be better to to go with SW's Appliance then, if the cost comparison makes sense.
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@obsolesce said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
May be better to to go with SW's Appliance then, if the cost comparison makes sense.
It makes the choice between a) getting the appliance and b) getting the hardware myself and buying the Starwind VSAN stuff myself, very easy. The appliance is much better value.
But buying the hardware (2 nodes) myself and just putting a free Hypervisor on there (Hyper-V or KVM) with replication would save a decent whack of money..
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@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
@obsolesce said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
@doyler3000 said in Hyper-V replication, Starwind, or something else?:
I want to setup a resilient two node virtualisation host production system.
So the goal is not for high-availability, but for host redundancy?
If that's the case, two Hyper-V hosts with the built-in replication just works, and works well.
Just keep in mind that going that direction, you could have between 30 seconds and 15 minutes of permanent data loss should you decide to spin up a replica if primary host dies. (unplanned fail-over)
However, planned-failover is a nice to have if live migration isn't suitable.
Being all Linux guests, no need to worry about licensing (so long as there's no software running on top of it with weird restrictions).
Yes HA would be nice but I suspect we don't really need it. However when it's available (see what I did there?) for a price that doesn't break the budget then it becomes tempting.
Here's the thing... it's basically free. Once you want the support from SW, it's free to have HA. If you want to do free Starwind, it's free. Basically, no matter what set of factors you go with, HA ends up being free within the context. It's not something you pay for (outside of the Vmware world.) So while it is important to understand it is a "nice to have", it's also important to remember that you should always get it and don't settle for less because it's always there for free.
