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    Unitrends and Office365

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved IT Discussion
    unitrendsoffice 365o365backup
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    • scottalanmillerS
      scottalanmiller @BRRABill
      last edited by

      @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

      @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends and Office365:

      @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

      Office365 backup always seems to get a thread started every month or so...

      Mostly people asking if they should.

      And isn't the final answer (after much of the same wandering) usually backup if you can?

      It's "do the right thing for you."

      BRRABillB IRJI 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • BRRABillB
        BRRABill @scottalanmiller
        last edited by

        @scottalanmiller said

        It's "do the right thing for you."

        Isn't everything in life?

        scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • scottalanmillerS
          scottalanmiller @BRRABill
          last edited by

          @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

          @scottalanmiller said

          It's "do the right thing for you."

          Isn't everything in life?

          Pretty much.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • wirestyle22W
            wirestyle22
            last edited by wirestyle22

            When is doing a backup incorrect and when is not doing a backup correct in this situation?

            coliverC scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • coliverC
              coliver @wirestyle22
              last edited by

              @wirestyle22 said in Unitrends and Office365:

              When it doing a backup incorrect and when it not doing a backup correct in this situation?

              What?

              wirestyle22W 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • wirestyle22W
                wirestyle22 @coliver
                last edited by wirestyle22

                And isn't the final answer (after much of the same wandering) usually backup if you can?

                It's "do the right thing for you."

                @coliver

                coliverC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • scottalanmillerS
                  scottalanmiller @wirestyle22
                  last edited by

                  @wirestyle22 said in Unitrends and Office365:

                  When is doing a backup incorrect and when is not doing a backup correct in this situation?

                  When is doing an EXTRA backup. That's the biggest question.

                  dafyreD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                  • coliverC
                    coliver @wirestyle22
                    last edited by coliver

                    @wirestyle22 said in Unitrends and Office365:

                    @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

                    @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends and Office365:

                    @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

                    Office365 backup always seems to get a thread started every month or so...

                    Mostly people asking if they should.

                    And isn't the final answer (after much of the same wandering) usually backup if you can?

                    @coliver

                    Right... but what was the question you're asking? If backup is right or not right? It all depends on the situation and how important the data is. How much extra does it cost to implement the backup of that data and does the cost of that backup outweigh the cost of recreating it.

                    wirestyle22W 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • wirestyle22W
                      wirestyle22 @coliver
                      last edited by

                      @coliver said in Unitrends and Office365:

                      @wirestyle22 said in Unitrends and Office365:

                      @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

                      @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends and Office365:

                      @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

                      Office365 backup always seems to get a thread started every month or so...

                      Mostly people asking if they should.

                      And isn't the final answer (after much of the same wandering) usually backup if you can?

                      @coliver

                      Right... but what was the question you're asking? If backup is right or not right? It all depends on the situation and how important the data is. How much extra does it cost to implement the backup of that data and is the cost of that backup outweigh the cost of recreating it.

                      I'm essentially asking what are the considerations to take into account but I didn't articulate it that way. Sorry

                      coliverC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • coliverC
                        coliver @wirestyle22
                        last edited by

                        @wirestyle22 said in Unitrends and Office365:

                        @coliver said in Unitrends and Office365:

                        @wirestyle22 said in Unitrends and Office365:

                        @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

                        @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends and Office365:

                        @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

                        Office365 backup always seems to get a thread started every month or so...

                        Mostly people asking if they should.

                        And isn't the final answer (after much of the same wandering) usually backup if you can?

                        @coliver

                        Right... but what was the question you're asking? If backup is right or not right? It all depends on the situation and how important the data is. How much extra does it cost to implement the backup of that data and is the cost of that backup outweigh the cost of recreating it.

                        I'm essentially asking what are the considerations to take into account but I didn't articulate it that way. Sorry

                        Oh got it.

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • dafyreD
                          dafyre @scottalanmiller
                          last edited by

                          @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends and Office365:

                          @wirestyle22 said in Unitrends and Office365:

                          When is doing a backup incorrect and when is not doing a backup correct in this situation?

                          When is doing an EXTRA backup. That's the biggest question.

                          Where are you getting the "Extra" backup from? Especially in cases of O365. If MS has a backup, but won't let you request it... Is it really a backup (since you can't put your hands on it if you need it)?

                          BRRABillB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                          • BRRABillB
                            BRRABill @dafyre
                            last edited by

                            @dafyre said in Unitrends and Office365:

                            @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends and Office365:

                            @wirestyle22 said in Unitrends and Office365:

                            When is doing a backup incorrect and when is not doing a backup correct in this situation?

                            When is doing an EXTRA backup. That's the biggest question.

                            Where are you getting the "Extra" backup from? Especially in cases of O365. If MS has a backup, but won't let you request it... Is it really a backup (since you can't put your hands on it if you need it)?

                            This is always the thing.

                            For me, the case for backup is

                            a) if a hacker gets access to your admin creds and destroys everything
                            NOTE: @scottalanmiller will say if they wanted to do this, they could just destroy your backups, as well, but that's not the case if they are stored on a separate off-site system

                            b) a user deletes something, and it filters out of the site recycle bin

                            dafyreD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                            • dafyreD
                              dafyre @BRRABill
                              last edited by

                              @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

                              @dafyre said in Unitrends and Office365:

                              @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends and Office365:

                              @wirestyle22 said in Unitrends and Office365:

                              When is doing a backup incorrect and when is not doing a backup correct in this situation?

                              When is doing an EXTRA backup. That's the biggest question.

                              Where are you getting the "Extra" backup from? Especially in cases of O365. If MS has a backup, but won't let you request it... Is it really a backup (since you can't put your hands on it if you need it)?

                              This is always the thing.

                              For me, the case for backup is

                              a) if a hacker gets access to your admin creds and destroys everything
                              NOTE: @scottalanmiller will say if they wanted to do this, they could just destroy your backups, as well, but that's not the case if they are stored on a separate off-site system

                              b) a user deletes something, and it filters out of the site recycle bin

                              Right. I classify that as "a backup". I'm trying to figure out why Scott used the term "extra".

                              scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • scottalanmillerS
                                scottalanmiller @dafyre
                                last edited by scottalanmiller

                                @dafyre said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                @dafyre said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                @wirestyle22 said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                When is doing a backup incorrect and when is not doing a backup correct in this situation?

                                When is doing an EXTRA backup. That's the biggest question.

                                Where are you getting the "Extra" backup from? Especially in cases of O365. If MS has a backup, but won't let you request it... Is it really a backup (since you can't put your hands on it if you need it)?

                                This is always the thing.

                                For me, the case for backup is

                                a) if a hacker gets access to your admin creds and destroys everything
                                NOTE: @scottalanmiller will say if they wanted to do this, they could just destroy your backups, as well, but that's not the case if they are stored on a separate off-site system

                                b) a user deletes something, and it filters out of the site recycle bin

                                Right. I classify that as "a backup". I'm trying to figure out why Scott used the term "extra".

                                Because there is already a backup taken by the vendor. The question here is not "backup vs no backup". It's "that backup vs. this back and that backup."

                                BRRABillB dafyreD 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • BRRABillB
                                  BRRABill @scottalanmiller
                                  last edited by

                                  @scottalanmiller said

                                  Because there is already a backup taken by the vendor. The question here is not "backup vs no backup". It's "that backup vs. this back and that backup."

                                  This is the answer always given, which I find a bit unhelpful to people looking for answers.

                                  In any of the scenarios I mention, this answer is not helpful, and will leave you without your files.

                                  I guess if you want to figure out the ramifications of that to your specific business, sure.

                                  scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • scottalanmillerS
                                    scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                                    last edited by

                                    @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                    @scottalanmiller said

                                    Because there is already a backup taken by the vendor. The question here is not "backup vs no backup". It's "that backup vs. this back and that backup."

                                    This is the answer always given, which I find a bit unhelpful to people looking for answers.

                                    In any of the scenarios I mention, this answer is not helpful, and will leave you without your files.

                                    I guess if you want to figure out the ramifications of that to your specific business, sure.

                                    But not in the scenarios that many people care about. So it is VERY helpful, just not to the use case you are focused on. Remember, normal people don't look to retrieve deleted emails and a good majority of people have local copies of email anyway. While your scenario is a real one, you assume that it is the only one. But only if it is the knowledge that the system is backed up and protected not helpful.

                                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • scottalanmillerS
                                      scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                                      last edited by

                                      @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                      @scottalanmiller said

                                      Because there is already a backup taken by the vendor. The question here is not "backup vs no backup". It's "that backup vs. this back and that backup."

                                      This is the answer always given, which I find a bit unhelpful to people looking for answers.

                                      In any of the scenarios I mention, this answer is not helpful, and will leave you without your files.

                                      If this is your concern, you should be very careful not to ask the question "is there a backup?", because there is, but that isn't what you want to know.

                                      DashrenderD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • scottalanmillerS
                                        scottalanmiller
                                        last edited by

                                        Also of importance for the scenario at hand would be how frequent backups are taken and how they are retained. Even if there were backups that captured every email (most backups would not) what if only the most current copy is kept and only for a day, or only a few hours? How often could you, even then, retrieve a lost email from, say, yesterday? "Is there backups" is not a very useful question in general. Data continuity is more complex than that.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • dafyreD
                                          dafyre @scottalanmiller
                                          last edited by

                                          @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                          @dafyre said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                          @BRRABill said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                          @dafyre said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                          @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                          @wirestyle22 said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                          When is doing a backup incorrect and when is not doing a backup correct in this situation?

                                          When is doing an EXTRA backup. That's the biggest question.

                                          Where are you getting the "Extra" backup from? Especially in cases of O365. If MS has a backup, but won't let you request it... Is it really a backup (since you can't put your hands on it if you need it)?

                                          This is always the thing.

                                          For me, the case for backup is

                                          a) if a hacker gets access to your admin creds and destroys everything
                                          NOTE: @scottalanmiller will say if they wanted to do this, they could just destroy your backups, as well, but that's not the case if they are stored on a separate off-site system

                                          b) a user deletes something, and it filters out of the site recycle bin

                                          Right. I classify that as "a backup". I'm trying to figure out why Scott used the term "extra".

                                          Because there is already a backup taken by the vendor. The question here is not "backup vs no backup". It's "that backup vs. this back and that backup."

                                          If I cannot use the backup that is taken by the vendor whenever I wish, that does not constitute a backup, imho. That means if a hacker gets in and deletes all my stuff, and then empties the recycle bin that I no longer have my stuff. If I can't use it, it doesn't count, lol.

                                          scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                          • scottalanmillerS
                                            scottalanmiller @dafyre
                                            last edited by

                                            @dafyre said in Unitrends and Office365:

                                            If I cannot use the backup that is taken by the vendor whenever I wish, that does not constitute a backup, imho.

                                            Why? End users can't use IT's backups, do you claim that because "someone" isn't the backup admin that things are not backups? Does that mean that you have to answer to the CEO that you "have no backups" because the janitor cannot restore whenever he desires?

                                            You are redefining backups to mean something totally different than the term means. No one anywhere assumed that end user control of the backup is a necessary component of something being a backup. And no enterprise turns control of restores totally over to end users, and most turn none over. But it is still considered a backup.

                                            dafyreD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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