Hyper-V Integrated Services
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@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
@jaredbusch said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
@tim_g he is not either. He is turning up a Hyper-V system in his lab to try instead of XS.
And while that may someday lead to wanting to try nested virtualization, nothing in this thread hinted that, and posting extraneous information does nothing to answer the OP or the other responders in the thread.
QQ more?
What information is or is not extraneous / relevant can be very subjective, and thankfully, isn't your call to make. The last I was aware, ML is a discussion forum.
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So ... just to take this back to Hyper-V LIS...
@Tim_G you said that you still need to install stuff for LIS to work. However, from all my research, that does not appear to be the case, and in fact it is built into most modern Linux OSes.
Let's take the recent ML darling, Fedora as an example.
You set up a new Fedora VM using the manual PS method to create a VHDX. Once the VM boots up and you update it, what do you do?
I content there is nothing more to do.
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BTW: I am talking about Hyper-V 2016, BTW.
I think that is also some of the confusion out there.
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@brrabill said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
BTW: I am talking about Hyper-V 2016, BTW.
I think that is also some of the confusion out there.
# Hyper-V Guest Agents sudo dnf -y install hyperv-daemons hyperv-tools # Hot-Add support sudo tee /etc/udev/rules.d/100-balloon.rules <<EOF SUBSYSTEM=="memory", ACTION=="add", ATTR{state}="online" EOF -
And what does that DO exactly.
If you go to the LIS page on Microsft's site, you can see the following...
Microsoft provides Linux Integration Services for a broad range of Linux distros as documented in the Linux and FreeBSD Virtual Machines on Hyper-V topic on TechNet. Per that documentation, **many Linux distributions and versions have Linux Integration Services built-in and do not require installation of this separate LIS package from Microsoft**. This LIS package is available for a subset of supported distributions in order to provide the best performance and fullest use of Hyper-V features. It can be installed in the listed distribution versions that do not already have LIS built in, and **can be installed as an upgrade in listed distribution versions that already have LIS built-in**. The built-in Red Hat Enterprise Linux Integration Services drivers for Hyper-V (available since Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6.4) are sufficient for Red Hat Enterprise Linux guests to run using the high performance synthetic devices on Hyper-V hosts. These built-in drivers are certified by Red Hat for this use, and certified configurations can be viewed on the Red Hat Customer Portal. It is not necessary to download and install this Linux Integration Services package from the Microsoft Download Center to use Red Hat Enterprise Linux on Hyper-V, and doing so may limit your Red Hat support as described in Red Hat Knowledgebase article 1067.Reading through this, what sticks out to me is that there is NO NEED to install anything. In fact, it says for RHEL installing more can actually limit official support. Which is why I am asking what you are installing.
Also, it also says you can upgrade to the latest versions if your Linux OS doesn't have it, but that is a file to be downloaded from Microsoft, much as in the example @JaredBusch gave on how to install LIS.
So, a few loose ends here, which is why I am asking...
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@brrabill said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
And what does that DO exactly.
If you go to the LIS page on Microsft's site, you can see the following...
Microsoft provides Linux Integration Services for a broad range of Linux distros as documented
in the Linux and FreeBSD Virtual Machines on Hyper-V topic on TechNet. Per that documentation,
many Linux distributions and versions have Linux Integration Services built-in and do not require
installation of this separate LIS package from Microsoft. This LIS package is available for a subset
of supported distributions in order to provide the best performance and fullest use of Hyper-V
features. It can be installed in the listed distribution versions that do not already have LIS built
in, and can be installed as an upgrade in listed distribution versions that already have LIS built-in.
The built-in Red Hat Enterprise Linux Integration Services drivers for Hyper-V (available since
Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6.4) are sufficient for Red Hat Enterprise Linux guests to run using the
high performance synthetic devices on Hyper-V hosts. These built-in drivers are certified by Red
Hat for this use, and certified configurations can be viewed on the Red Hat Customer Portal. It is
not necessary to download and install this Linux Integration Services package from the Microsoft
Download Center to use Red Hat Enterprise Linux on Hyper-V, and doing so may limit your Red
Hat support as described in Red Hat Knowledgebase article 1067.Reading through this, what sticks out to me is that there is NO NEED to install anything. In fact, it says for RHEL installing more can actually limit official support. Which is why I am asking what you are installing.
Also, it also says you can upgrade to the latest versions if your Linux OS doesn't have it, but that is a file to be downloaded from Microsoft, much as in the example @JaredBusch gave on how to install LIS.
So, a few loose ends here, which is why I am asking...
With Red Hat and CentOS they do have the packages builtin but they are old because of the release cycles of those two. That's why Microsoft provides a separate LIS packages. With Fedora, its releases twice a year so you will end up getting newer packages anyway.
Also the LIS packages that Microsoft provides automatically adds
Hot-Add supportrule. -
@black3dynamite said
With Red Hat and CentOS they do have the packages builtin but they are old because of the release cycles of those two. That's why Microsoft provides a separate LIS packages. With Fedora, its releases twice a year so you will end up getting newer packages anyway.
Also the LIS packages that Microsoft provides automatically adds
Hot-Add supportrule.So if you are installing CentOS 7 or Fedora 26 ... there is nothing else required, correct?
The supported LIS is included by default and will be updated automatically by the system.
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@brrabill said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
@black3dynamite said
With Red Hat and CentOS they do have the packages builtin but they are old because of the release cycles of those two. That's why Microsoft provides a separate LIS packages. With Fedora, its releases twice a year so you will end up getting newer packages anyway.
Also the LIS packages that Microsoft provides automatically adds
Hot-Add supportrule.So if you are installing CentOS 7 or Fedora 26 ... there is nothing else required, correct?
The supported LIS is included by default and will be updated automatically by the system.
You do NOT need to and shouldn't install any kind of LIS when you use Fedora 26 on Hyper-V.
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Just to clarify, I didn't say to install LIS.
hyperv-daemons hypervvssd hyperv-toolspackages are NOT LIS, but tools to support the guest in Hyper-V. -
@tim_g said
You do NOT need to and shouldn't install any kind of LIS when you use Fedora 26 on Hyper-V.
Earlier in the thread you said:
"When you bring up a Fedora 26 VM on Hyper-V, all you need to do is run this:
dnf install hyperv-daemons hypervvssd hyperv-tools"Which is what I was questioning...
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@tim_g said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
Just to clarify, I didn't say to install LIS.
hyperv-daemons hypervvssd hyperv-toolspackages are NOT LIS, but tools to support the guest in Hyper-V.Can you explain that more?
Because I think those are also pre-installed.
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@brrabill said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
Just to clarify, I didn't say to install LIS.
hyperv-daemons hypervvssd hyperv-toolspackages are NOT LIS, but tools to support the guest in Hyper-V.Can you explain that more?
Because I think those are also pre-installed.
If they are pre-installed, then I wasn't aware of that.
I assumed they aren't because if you run
dnf install hyperv-daemons hyperv-tools, it lets you and doesn't say those are already installed. -
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
@brrabill said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
@tim_g said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
Just to clarify, I didn't say to install LIS.
hyperv-daemons hypervvssd hyperv-toolspackages are NOT LIS, but tools to support the guest in Hyper-V.Can you explain that more?
Because I think those are also pre-installed.
If they are pre-installed, then I wasn't aware of that.
I assumed they aren't because if you run
dnf install hyperv-daemons hyperv-tools, it lets you and doesn't say those are already installed.You are correct they are not installed.
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@brrabill usually centos has external kernel drivers installable by microsoft, ubuntu runs its own set, don't know about fedora.
those are required to make app aware "stuff" possible from hyper-v BUT they aren't enough.
hypervisor searches for its own "agent", which is given by the cited packages. Then the "agent" leverages kernel space drivers to accomplish app aware "stuff".
basically you have more or less recent drivers but you miss the userland stuff that makes it actually work.
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@matteo-nunziati said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
@brrabill usually centos has external kernel drivers installable by microsoft, ubuntu runs its own set, don't know about fedora.
those are required to make app aware "stuff" possible from hyper-v BUT they aren't enough.
hypervisor searches for its own "agent", which is given by the cited packages. Then the "agent" leverages kernel space drivers to accomplish app aware "stuff".
basically you have more or less recent drivers but you miss the userland stuff that makes it actually work.
So what would happen if you don't install the "agent"?
I ask because everything seems to be working fine.
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@brrabill said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
dnf install hyperv-daemons hyperv-tools
I see from installing
hyperv-daemons hyperv-toolsit at a minimum puts the IP address in Hyper-V Manager.
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So, hyperv-daemons does the following. I am still trying to figure out exactly what hyperv-tools does.
hyperv-daemon:
Suite of daemons for Linux guests running on Hyper-V, consisting of hv_fcopy_daemon, hv_kvp_daemon and hv_vss_daemon.hv_fcopy_daemon provides the file copy service, allowing the host to copy files into the guest.
hv_kvp_daemon provides the key-value pair (KVP) service, allowing the host to get and set the IP networking configuration of the guest. (This requires helper scripts which are not currently included.)
hv_vss_daemon provides the volume shadow copy service (VSS), allowing the host to freeze the guest filesystems while taking a snapshot.
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@brrabill said in Hyper-V Integrated Services:
So, hyperv-daemons does the following. I am still trying to figure out exactly what hyperv-tools does.
hyperv-daemon:
Suite of daemons for Linux guests running on Hyper-V, consisting of hv_fcopy_daemon, hv_kvp_daemon and hv_vss_daemon.hv_fcopy_daemon provides the file copy service, allowing the host to copy files into the guest.
hv_kvp_daemon provides the key-value pair (KVP) service, allowing the host to get and set the IP networking configuration of the guest. (This requires helper scripts which are not currently included.)
hv_vss_daemon provides the volume shadow copy service (VSS), allowing the host to freeze the guest filesystems while taking a snapshot.
basically the agent requires both kenrel space and userland tools. due to the way linux is distributed you ended up with kernel drivers in place but missing userland.
to understand what userland does try making a backup or snapshot or similar. you can use stuff like an altaro trial : you will see if so called application aware backups are made or not.
this is one of the things which allow hypervisor level tools to interact properly with guests.not having the proper agent components basically limits this kind of things. also it reduces the introspection of guests, things like view their ip address and so...
this is the list of things provided by the full agent
I've never checked out which part of the agent does what
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@matteo-nunziati said
this is the list of things provided by the full agent
I wish that chart broke it down by
- MS LIS and
- agent
