VLAN confusion
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@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
Also, I don't really know how to find phone consultants.
You have two non-reseller consultants in this thread alone. You should have an ITSP that aids you all the time, it should not be something you go looking for like this at all. Where is the company that helps you with finding the right people? It seems like there is a big gap in your support portfolio. That would be the CIO's job to have at the ready.
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@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
- Then it leads to why there has been NO evaluation of needs AT ALL. Zero. No IT done, whatsoever.
What do you mean about number 3?
No IT work has been done here. Here is the roles that were in play...
- Business person (CIO) discovers a technical need (need voice communications.)
- Business person does not engage IT.
- Business person finds a sales person that says that they will sell something to the company.
- Company buys product.
At no step in the process was an IT person engaged, no IT person represented the company interests, no IT person looked at or compared options, no IT person produced an evaluation of needs, etc.
There's no IT. Just business people and sales people bypassing any and all IT oversight.
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@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
Plus, we are in a small rural city with not a lot of diverse consultant type companies around.
Locality is not a factor in consulting, or IT. Locality is only a factor in entry level bench work, janitorial work and things like that. You don't get advice from people nearby, you get advice from people who know what they are doing.
http://www.smbitjournal.com/2015/08/avoiding-local-service-providers/
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@scottalanmiller said in VLAN confusion:
@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
Also, I don't really know how to find phone consultants.
You have two non-reseller consultants in this thread alone. You should have an ITSP that aids you all the time, it should not be something you go looking for like this at all. Where is the company that helps you with finding the right people? It seems like there is a big gap in your support portfolio. That would be the CIO's job to have at the ready.
Well we do have the FIS who helps us with all the products and services we use in our company, but not so much with our IT infrastructure like we are talking about.
We did have a Dell VAR who I've cut ties with because he was terrible. Then we started up a relationship with that IT business management consultant company (who also are the Cisco partners/resellers we are going through)
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@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
Well we do have the FIS who helps us with all the products and services we use in our company, but not so much with our IT infrastructure like we are talking about.
I'm not familiar with this term. What is a FIS?
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@scottalanmiller said in VLAN confusion:
@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
Well we do have the FIS who helps us with all the products and services we use in our company, but not so much with our IT infrastructure like we are talking about.
I'm not familiar with this term. What is a FIS?
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@dave247 said in VLAN confusion
@scottalanmiller said in VLAN confusion:We did have a Dell VAR who I've cut ties with because he was terrible. Then we started up a relationship with that IT business management consultant company (who also are the Cisco partners/resellers we are going through)
They are NOT a business management consultant company. They are sales people. Please stick to the correct terms. Calling sales people consultants empowers the very behaviour the CIO is using here. It legitimizes what he's done, where the is no possible excuse for it, in reality.
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@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
@scottalanmiller said in VLAN confusion:
@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
Well we do have the FIS who helps us with all the products and services we use in our company, but not so much with our IT infrastructure like we are talking about.
I'm not familiar with this term. What is a FIS?
Oh, a consumer bank processor.
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@scottalanmiller said in VLAN confusion:
@dave247 said in VLAN confusion
@scottalanmiller said in VLAN confusion:We did have a Dell VAR who I've cut ties with because he was terrible. Then we started up a relationship with that IT business management consultant company (who also are the Cisco partners/resellers we are going through)
They are NOT a business management consultant company. They are sales people. Please stick to the correct terms. Calling sales people consultants empowers the very behaviour the CIO is using here. It legitimizes what he's done, where the is no possible excuse for it, in reality.
Well I don't know what else to do or who to go through for help. I don't know how to find the right people and I'm bad at weeding out things that aren't what they seem.
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@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
@scottalanmiller said in VLAN confusion:
@dave247 said in VLAN confusion
@scottalanmiller said in VLAN confusion:We did have a Dell VAR who I've cut ties with because he was terrible. Then we started up a relationship with that IT business management consultant company (who also are the Cisco partners/resellers we are going through)
They are NOT a business management consultant company. They are sales people. Please stick to the correct terms. Calling sales people consultants empowers the very behaviour the CIO is using here. It legitimizes what he's done, where the is no possible excuse for it, in reality.
Well I don't know what else to do or who to go through for help. I don't know how to find the right people and I'm bad at weeding out things that aren't what they seem.
But it's not your job. It's the CIO's job. Are you saying that he's business incompetent now and can't or simply won't do his job?
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@scottalanmiller said in VLAN confusion:
@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
@scottalanmiller said in VLAN confusion:
@dave247 said in VLAN confusion
@scottalanmiller said in VLAN confusion:We did have a Dell VAR who I've cut ties with because he was terrible. Then we started up a relationship with that IT business management consultant company (who also are the Cisco partners/resellers we are going through)
They are NOT a business management consultant company. They are sales people. Please stick to the correct terms. Calling sales people consultants empowers the very behaviour the CIO is using here. It legitimizes what he's done, where the is no possible excuse for it, in reality.
Well I don't know what else to do or who to go through for help. I don't know how to find the right people and I'm bad at weeding out things that aren't what they seem.
But it's not your job. It's the CIO's job. Are you saying that he's business incompetent now and can't or simply won't do his job?
He's the one who chose that company I mentioned.
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@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
... and I'm bad at weeding out things that aren't what they seem.
In any of the cases that have come up, as anything been different than it seems?
Walk through it carefully. Maybe there is something you can fix, like misusing terms that people use to mislead you, or emotionally reacting and wanting to defend people that have no reasonable defense or such.
Your Dell VAR... the title alone is enough to tell us that they'd be bad for you. The Cisco VAR, same thing. The CIO bringing in sales people instead of consultants, people calling sales people consultants. Having an ISP for the phones.
All of those things should be obviously bad based on what they are, and I would assume, were all transparently those things from the onset. Did any of them lie or hide their true nature?
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My guess, and this is only a guess, is that you have an emotional desire to see people as good, as working in your interest, in being your friends. And this overlay of emotions leads you to try to rationalize how the CIO might be being ethical, and just making mistakes. How the sales people might be consultants, who also sell. And so forth.
It's called "rationalizing" and all people do it. But it isn't that what they are is not obvious. If this is what you are doing, it's that it is so obvious that you panic and try to, in your mind, make them out to be good people even when it is obvious that they are bad actors taking advantage of the company that you are trying to protect.
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In other words, if we asked a computer about these people, it would tell us that they are bad actors. We know enough to know that. Logically it is apparent. It's human emotions that make it feel confusing. We all have them, so learning to shut them down when analyzing these things is very important.
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@scottalanmiller said in VLAN confusion:
@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
... and I'm bad at weeding out things that aren't what they seem.
In any of the cases that have come up, as anything been different than it seems?
Walk through it carefully. Maybe there is something you can fix, like misusing terms that people use to mislead you, or emotionally reacting and wanting to defend people that have no reasonable defense or such.
Your Dell VAR... the title alone is enough to tell us that they'd be bad for you. The Cisco VAR, same thing. The CIO bringing in sales people instead of consultants, people calling sales people consultants. Having an ISP for the phones.
All of those things should be obviously bad based on what they are, and I would assume, were all transparently those things from the onset. Did any of them lie or hide their true nature?
hmm... I'll have to think about this. I'm heading to my lunch now so I'll continue this discussion when I get back. Thanks for your input, Scott.
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@scottalanmiller said in VLAN confusion:
@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
... and my current understanding is that I would want a separate VLAN to use with that separate subnet.
Also incorrect. VLANs basically require subnetting (or overlaps) but you never use a VLAN for subnetting. Subnets are simple and effective, VLANs are complex. You only use a VLAN for management and security purposes, never performance, subnetting or any other purpose.
Stepping back in the discussion a bit.. I didn't understand your reply here. Isn't it best-practice to have a single network on a VLAN? Like, if I had a company network of 200 systems on one network and a LAB network of 20 systems, I wouldn't want them sharing the same switch/VLAN, would I?
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@dashrender said in VLAN confusion:
@jaredbusch said in VLAN confusion:
Then you change your few static devices (if you do not have only a few static systems, you have other issues).
What JB means by this is - he uses static assignments in DHCP for things like printers. This allows you to reboot a printer to get the new settings when things like this change.
Servers are about the only thing that should be set statically, the rest can rely on Static DHCP assignment.
oh man.. the printers.. I forgot about all the statically assigned printers we have. My company has about 30 statically assigned printers. That will be a huge pain in the butt to change..
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@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
@dashrender said in VLAN confusion:
@jaredbusch said in VLAN confusion:
Then you change your few static devices (if you do not have only a few static systems, you have other issues).
What JB means by this is - he uses static assignments in DHCP for things like printers. This allows you to reboot a printer to get the new settings when things like this change.
Servers are about the only thing that should be set statically, the rest can rely on Static DHCP assignment.
oh man.. the printers.. I forgot about all the statically assigned printers we have. My company has about 30 statically assigned printers. That will be a huge pain in the butt to change..
Move them to DHCP while you do it. two bird, one stone.
But remember, if the things in the new range don't need to print, no need to change them.
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@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
Stepping back in the discussion a bit.. I didn't understand your reply here. Isn't it best-practice to have a single network on a VLAN?
Absolutely not. VLANs are for security and management, only. Period. No other purpose for them. No best practice adds VLANs to other concerns. VLANs are widely used, because security and management needs create cause for them. But those are the singular reasons for which VLANs are sensible.
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@dave247 said in VLAN confusion:
Like, if I had a company network of 200 systems on one network and a LAB network of 20 systems, I wouldn't want them sharing the same switch/VLAN, would I?
You lept topics. You asked about subnetting, now you are asking about security. Like I keep saying, if you are VLANing for security, then you use VLANs. And VLANs imply "same switch."
The issue in your example is that you need the VLAN to keep them apart, but you don't need separate subnets. You likely want separate subnets, but not for security reasons, just for convenience since the VLANs will be a pain without it. But the subnet exists solely to support the VLAN, not the other way around.
