Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool
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@jmoore said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
Shared DB File Instead of Server:
Scott,
What do you mean by this statement? I only ask because I want to understand better.Context: We are talking about relational data. This is a broader question, but in this case we will focus on this style of data.
A database file is a database. It's literally a file or group of files, nothing more. Whether you use QB, Access, SQL Server, MySQL, Oracle DB whatever... your database is either one file or multiple files; but it is files on disk. That's all.
A database server (Relational Database Manage Server or RDBMS) is a server that connects to one or more databases, arbitrates access and security, ensures integrity and shares access to that databases data over a network connection to one or more client systems (applications.)
To compare this to normal storage, a database is like a disk. Just a normal 1TB SATA disk. And an RDBMS is like a NAS. You put a disk into a NAS and suddenly the NAS can share it on the network, can enforce security access to it, can make sure that only certain files are written, etc. If you just attach a plain SATA disk to two computers at once, they have no security, no controls, no safety. Databases are identical here (we could go deeper into the theory of filesystems being databases to get really interesting if we wanted.)
So what we have with QB is just a database file. It's shared over SMB protocol on a mapped drive, which does no arbitration. So any machine that connects to it can mess with the file any way it wants - delete it, corrupt it, modify it, etc.
If you replaced that file with something like MS SQL Server, then you would connect to the RDBMS, not the database file itself, and the RDBMS could make sure that only one system was modifying things at a time, that only allowed users were making allowed changes, that relationships in the database were maintained and so forth. All of the power of an relational database comes from the RDBMS, almost nothing comes from the file on disk. THis is why people spend their time talking about RDBMSs, like MySQL and SQL Server and not about on disk file formats that they use, like ISAM and MDB. One matters a lot, the other very, very little. The "driver" that allows an RDBMS to talk to a given on disk DB format is called a Database Engine.
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@gjacobse said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
If you are not versed with Excel, you could likely spend hours building and customizing the worksheets, mail merge options that are built into QB.
Same with QB. According to MS, pre-built tools for this exist and are free. So basically once you own Excel, you have free QB alternatives.
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@jmoore said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
I don't have a lot of experience in this area with different products but I can recommend Xero at least for personal/small business needs.
It's actually great for Enterprise as well. You will need to purchase add ons for somethings but it is a great program in that you can customize it a whole lot more than QB.
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I would recommend something like Xero over using Excel - If you don't know Excel,.. you could still likely get into a mess should the file get damaged.
Yes you can have shadow copies,.. but still..
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@gjacobse said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
I would recommend something like Xero over using Excel - If you don't know Excel,.. you could still likely get into a mess should the file get damaged.
There would be no file. It would use MS SQL Server, of course.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@gjacobse said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
I would recommend something like Xero over using Excel - If you don't know Excel,.. you could still likely get into a mess should the file get damaged.
There would be no file. It would use MS SQL Server, of course.
So you are saying Excel is the 'front end' - that is different that what I was envisioning.
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@gjacobse said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@gjacobse said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
I would recommend something like Xero over using Excel - If you don't know Excel,.. you could still likely get into a mess should the file get damaged.
There would be no file. It would use MS SQL Server, of course.
So you are saying Excel is the 'front end' - that is different that what I was envisioning.
Yes, of course. It's just a way to see the data stored on the proper, business database.
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Ok thanks a lot for the reply and explanation. I understand the basics of relational databases but I just didn't know what Quickbooks used and what you meant by sharing a database. Thanks for explaining. I see now why I did not understand and it is because I never thought of any business just using a file to control everything and not the rdbms. That is just really weird and I don't get why they still do it that way. For an analogy, wouldn't that be something like having a couple thousand desktops in a place and not using a server of any kind for administration?
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@jmoore said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
That is just really weird and I don't get why they still do it that way.
Because, as he said, QB basically stopped developing the product ages ago. It's meant for TINY shops. Intuit expects, if you are more than one, then you should be using their hosted product.
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@jmoore said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
For an analogy, wouldn't that be something like having a couple thousand desktops in a place and not using a server of any kind for administration?
Not quite, because in theory desktops work just fine on their own without a server. The RDBMS isn't for administration, it's for arbitration. It's more like hundreds of users sharing a single workstation without different accounts. So you have to trust all other users not to mess with your files. And you have to trust that they will leave sticky notes saying what files they have been working on and if they can be changed or not. And they have to trust that you will honor their sticky notes.
It's "blind, full trust, anonymous users." It's utterly insane.
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@dashrender said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@jmoore said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
That is just really weird and I don't get why they still do it that way.
Because, as he said, QB basically stopped developing the product ages ago. It's meant for TINY shops. Intuit expects, if you are more than one, then you should be using their hosted product.
Well, today that's what they assume. For two decades though they just assumed you knew better and wouldn't use it at all.
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I work at employer where theyve been using QB since 2002! We are migrating off it end of the year.
The list of Scott's issues with this software is long, and almost complete.
As someone who has to support this, these things make me angry:Each workstation, upon opening the company file, downloads the entire gd company file over the network. Same when closing. And it seems to have a max dl/ul speed of about 20mbps, even on a uncongested gbps network.
The software suite needs to be installed on the server, for some reason. The server cant just hold the data. Here is snip of their OS support page.
WTF? No 2008/2012/2016 support? So most installations (here when i started and other places) use user desktops for the server. Oh, and Server 2011 huh?Updating to a new version will almost break it, requiring a call to their helpdesk, which only operates from 9-5 M-F, unless youre on Enterprise.
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What the heck is Windows Server 2011 R2?
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I bet it doesn't REALLY run on all versions of Windows 10.
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On the flip side of things I can't even convince my own accountant to use something else. What choices do I have? In a small town you may not be able to find an accountant that is willing to consider something else.
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@mike-davis said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
On the flip side of things I can't even convince my own accountant to use something else. What choices do I have?
I would never use an incompetent accountant like that. If they don't care about doing their job well, or your company, why would you trust them to be your accountant? That's crazy. Fire them, of course.
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@mike-davis said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
In a small town you may not be able to find an accountant that is willing to consider something else.
You are in a city, we have no issues finding good CPAs in towns way smaller. Mine is in Perry, NY and they have no issues with business class accounting packages.
If your town lacks any business accounting services, why would you do business in that town? That makes no sense.
Accounting is just like IT. You'd never use locality to select an ITSP. You'd never do so with accountants either. Just bad business practices.
http://www.smbitjournal.com/2015/08/avoiding-local-service-providers/
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@scottalanmiller Can you tell me how I find a competent accountant in Auburn, NY that doesn't use QuickBooks? I've talked to six accountants that were recommended by other professionals and they all insist on it. BTW - who is your accountant now and what to do they use? What about your accountant before that?
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@mike-davis said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller Can you tell me how I find a competent accountant in Auburn, NY that doesn't use QuickBooks? I've talked to six accountants that were recommended by other professionals and they all insist on it. BTW - who is your accountant now and what to do they use? What about your accountant before that?
Why do they need to be in that town? Can't you use an accountant who lives in NYC? not that you want to, fees would be to high.
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@mike-davis said in Why QuickBooks Is Not a Business Tool:
@scottalanmiller Can you tell me how I find a competent accountant in Auburn, NY that doesn't use QuickBooks?
There is no competent one that requires QB, the two concepts cannot overlap. So if you believe no competent accountant exists in Auburn (that's absurd, though, of course they do) then why would you be looking in Auburn? That makes no sense. Accountants have no reason whatsoever to be local. Probably no reason to even be in your state, but you are in an enormous state so finding one is trivial. I live in Texas and my accountants are in a town of 4,500 people in rural NY. So state doesn't likely matter for you, either.
In little villages, I've had no issue finding people who don't require QB. Both accounting and bookkeeping firms. No clue how you are finding those problems in Auburn, but that's not your key problem.
