Sunk Cost Fallacy?

[coliver]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

Let's assume we can get the phones down to $10K because we buy several of the more advanced models, but most at the $75 rate Scott mentioned - We're still at $3K more before you look at infrastructure upgrades (cables and switches), which will be at least another $2500, making the solution $5500 more than option 2.

Still quite a bit more. May want to get a firm grasp on long term support costs, but you wouldn't pay for the change over in a 5 year window that's for sure.

Out of curiosity why wouldn't the infrastructure upgrades be included with the other options? Seems like any new phone will require CAT5 or better wiring.

[Dashrender]

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

Let's assume we can get the phones down to $10K because we buy several of the more advanced models, but most at the $75 rate Scott mentioned - We're still at $3K more before you look at infrastructure upgrades (cables and switches), which will be at least another $2500, making the solution $5500 more than option 2.

Yeah, that's still a bit sadly.

Assuming $1000/yr for software updates and support to install them, that $5K is the operating cash for the next 5 years.

[coliver]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

That's nine things. The most basic phone I looked at has 10. Are all programmable? No, so it might not quite meet your desires here. But close. You certainly don't need much for that, maybe one step up would do it.

[Dashrender]

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

Let's assume we can get the phones down to $10K because we buy several of the more advanced models, but most at the $75 rate Scott mentioned - We're still at $3K more before you look at infrastructure upgrades (cables and switches), which will be at least another $2500, making the solution $5500 more than option 2.

Still quite a bit more. May want to get a firm grasp on long term support costs, but you wouldn't pay for the change over in a 5 year window that's for sure.

Out of curiosity why wouldn't the infrastructure upgrades be included with the other options? Seems like any new phone will require CAT5 or better wiring.

No, the phones will stay digital, don't need CAT 5 for digital phones. So no switch port upgrades/no new cabling, instant $2500 savings.

[coliver]

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Sadly the Cisco phone I'm looking at right now, several times the cost of the Yealink, doesn't even meet these requirements.

[scottalanmiller]

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

[scottalanmiller]

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Sadly the Cisco phone I'm looking at right now, several times the cost of the Yealink, doesn't even meet these requirements.

It might cost more, but it's a cheaper phone

[coliver]

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.

[Dashrender]

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

we don't need an actual button for intercom, just pickup the phone and dial and extension - intercom just works (I'm not really sure why my phone has a button for it)

*Edit - I know why - If you put the call on hold, it's how you pick it back up.

[scottalanmiller]

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.

Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.

[Dashrender]

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.

Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.

So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

we don't need an actual button for intercom, just pickup the phone and dial and extension - intercom just works (I'm not really sure why my phone has a button for it)

*Edit - I know why - If you put the call on hold, it's how you pick it back up.

Oh okay, that's a PBX feature and can easily handle that stuff for a number of the features. If a quick code is good enough, the $75 phones are back in play. Not saying that they are right, just that they are affordable and my dad uses it

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.

Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.

So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?

Soft button. Works the same just doesn't have a permanent ink icon on it

[coliver]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.

Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.

So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?

What do you mean? It would be placed on hold as one of the "lines".

[scottalanmiller]

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.

Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.

So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?

Hold is normally a hard button, though. It's intercom that is rare.

[scottalanmiller]

Sadly, while I like a full revamp more, I think that sticking with the Mitel is going to be the sensible answer in the end. The sunk cost creates an existing (current) value that is hard to overcome. BUT, I would have testing and a plan in place to not replace it when that time comes. It's that the current Mitel still works, or mostly works, that creates the current value that ripping and replacing probably can't overcome.

[Dashrender]

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

we don't need an actual button for intercom, just pickup the phone and dial and extension - intercom just works (I'm not really sure why my phone has a button for it)

*Edit - I know why - If you put the call on hold, it's how you pick it back up.

Oh okay, that's a PBX feature and can easily handle that stuff for a number of the features. If a quick code is good enough, the $75 phones are back in play. Not saying that they are right, just that they are affordable and my dad uses it

Right, so even if they are in play, the cost is still significantly higher, 70% higher, than option2, and it would require significant training of our users.

[scottalanmiller]

This is one of those situations, I suspect, where the real business need and the "thing that seems great to IT" probably won't line up. The Mitels are "good enough" and so much cheaper (because they are already paid for) that moving to something else just can't be justified given the other needs (not all using softphones, lacking cabling for the phones and so forth.)

[Dashrender]

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:

scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix

I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.

DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
mute

Those three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.

Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.

Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.

Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.

Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.

So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?

Soft button. Works the same just doesn't have a permanent ink icon on it

awww.