Strict Web Filtering - Good Security or Cause for Lynch Mob?
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I bring it up as we've been putting Sophos through it's paces, with web filtering turned on. What do y'all think?
Bias admission: I just removed the bloody thing because it made me angry repeatedly.
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For clarity; all filters enabled - social media, guns, booze, smokes, you name it.
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Normally When I put an a webfilter I put it pretty strict and then start to open it up as needed. I'm using SOPHOS UTM at home now and I like it pretty well.
Most businesses aren't as strict about social networking sites anymore and want facebook, twitter, etc open for everyone.
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Not all, but some are going with a more Business need approach. Not everyone needs access to Facebook,.. HR / PR department does,.. to promote the business and to 'investigate' rumors of bad employees.
Generally locking everything down, and then forcing groups or users to specifically give a business need why the need access to a site or group type. There are some companies that view using Facebook - not company related - is theft of company resources.. the data rx/tx and the time lost.
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My philosophy is that if you tell someone that they can't do something, it will instantly make everyone, even people who didn't care before, want to do it. Tell everyone no access to Facebook, 2% will not care, the 70% who will get upset rightfully will get upset, and the other 28% will follow suit. It's mob mentality.
Tell people they are free to check Facebook during downtime or their lunch period and that as long as it doesn't affect productivity, you don't care, and life will be good. Sure, you'll get the few bad eggs who always spoil it for the rest of the people, but those are the people who get laid off anyways. In general, I've found people are pretty good about knowing what needs to get done and getting it done. Some are more proactive than others, but unless there is some legal security reason for doing it, I wouldn't lock down Facebook, Twitter, etc. Now Pandora, Spotify, etc can cause bandwidth issues, but a good QoS can solve that easily too.
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@g.jacobse said:
here are some companies that view using Facebook - not company related - is theft of company resources.. the data rx/tx and the time lost.
Very few companies are doing this anymore with the work life separation become next to nothing. And you having to do work and worry about your job off the clock at home very few companies care about you using work time to take a call, check email, facebook etc. as long as it does not become a problem.
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@g.jacobse said:
Generally locking everything down, and then forcing groups or users to specifically give a business need why the need access to a site or group type.
That's an HR issue not an IT issue and should be left to them and management to decide who get's access to what.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@g.jacobse said:
here are some companies that view using Facebook - not company related - is theft of company resources.. the data rx/tx and the time lost.
Very few companies are doing this anymore with the work life separation become next to nothing. And you having to do work and worry about your job off the clock at home very few companies care about you using work time to take a call, check email, facebook etc. as long as it does not become a problem.
Exactly. Everything in this world is about ratios/proportions. Spending time on Facebook? Why should they care? If it doesn't impact productivity or damage the company in some way, they really shouldn't. Many companies make this into a huge deal, when in reality, my theory is the micro-breaks provided by Facebook, Twitter, etc taken by employees is a sign of good time-management skills and knowing how to make yourself more productive. It's only an issue if it goes from being a source of a micro-break to a deterrent to getting work done, etc. But those are the people who don't manage themselves well anyways.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@g.jacobse said:
Generally locking everything down, and then forcing groups or users to specifically give a business need why the need access to a site or group type.
That's an HR issue not an IT issue and should be left to them and management to decide who get's access to what.
Also agreed. IT doesn't set the policy. We just put the tech side into effect to enforce whatever is handed down to us...
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@thecreativeone91 said:
That's an HR issue not an IT issue and should be left to them and management to decide who get's access to what.
HR issue, yes. But it is IT's job to implement. In order to implement there needs to be a process that hopefully HR and/or upper management worked with the IT department to create so that IT can apply the rules as decided upon.
Nothing is ever an issue for only one portion of a company. that type of silo mentality leads to a whole suite of problems.
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@JaredBusch said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
That's an HR issue not an IT issue and should be left to them and management to decide who get's access to what.
HR issue, yes. But it is IT's job to implement. In order to implement there needs to be a process that hopefully HR and/or upper management worked with the IT department to create so that IT can apply the rules as decided upon.
Nothing is ever an issue for only one portion of a company. that type of silo mentality leads to a whole suite of problems.
Yes. We implement the policy management sets. But we have no say in the policy nor should we care. We are just there to facilitate what the company needs.
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@JaredBusch said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
That's an HR issue not an IT issue and should be left to them and management to decide who get's access to what.
HR issue, yes. But it is IT's job to implement. In order to implement there needs to be a process that hopefully HR and/or upper management worked with the IT department to create so that IT can apply the rules as decided upon.
Nothing is ever an issue for only one portion of a company. that type of silo mentality leads to a whole suite of problems.
I get where you're coming from Jared, but I still have to say that @thecreativeone91 is right. While we have to determine if what they want is even feasibly possible, which we all know many times what they want isn't reasonably possible, HR will often have guidelines they say must be met. Departments X, Y and Z can have this and not that. A, B and C can't that this and can that. We just do the backend stuff. We can tell them what's doable and not from a tech side, but as far as the actual policy, we wouldn't have any say in that.
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@thanksajdotcom said:
Spending time on Facebook? Why should they care? If it doesn't impact productivity or damage the company in some way, they really shouldn't.
Because it IS theft by definition. You are stealing company resources to view this on your company computer.
And every moment when you are getting paid and NOT doing a task defined by your position (via job description, or boss said so, whatever) you are stealing from the company. You are paid to do tasks defined by your position. Nothing else.
Yes the football around the watercooler is also theft.
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@JaredBusch said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
Spending time on Facebook? Why should they care? If it doesn't impact productivity or damage the company in some way, they really shouldn't.
Because it IS theft by definition. You are stealing company resources to view this on your company computer.
And every moment when you are getting paid and NOT doing a task defined by your position (via job description, or boss said so, whatever) you are stealing from the company. You are paid to do tasks defined by your position. Nothing else.
Yes the football around the watercooler is also theft.
This is only theft is the company does not allow you to do this. Many companies encourage employees to socialize some with their co-workers during working hours when there is down time.
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@thecreativeone91 said:
@JaredBusch said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
Spending time on Facebook? Why should they care? If it doesn't impact productivity or damage the company in some way, they really shouldn't.
Because it IS theft by definition. You are stealing company resources to view this on your company computer.
And every moment when you are getting paid and NOT doing a task defined by your position (via job description, or boss said so, whatever) you are stealing from the company. You are paid to do tasks defined by your position. Nothing else.
Yes the football around the watercooler is also theft.
This is only theft is the company does not allow you to do this. Many companies encourage employees to socialize some with their co-workers during working hours when there is down time.
I agree that some companies do. Some do not.
Many, is debatable.
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@JaredBusch said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
Spending time on Facebook? Why should they care? If it doesn't impact productivity or damage the company in some way, they really shouldn't.
Because it IS theft by definition. You are stealing company resources to view this on your company computer.
And every moment when you are getting paid and NOT doing a task defined by your position (via job description, or boss said so, whatever) you are stealing from the company. You are paid to do tasks defined by your position. Nothing else.
Yes the football around the watercooler is also theft.
See, you have a very strict and black/white definition of how people should work. This is what is wrong with most businesses. They objectify how time is spent, not the results produced. Sure, someone might spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week working diligently and only taking their scheduled breaks, but maybe they're moving slower than they could. Maybe they must constantly refocus and therefore, even though they work non-stop, their quality suffers.
People should be judged by the results they deliver, not how they obtain said results. If I can do my job in 6 hours a day to a very high standard, and it takes someone else the full 8, why should I have to be "working" the other 2? If you're hourly, that is one thing. However, if you're salary, this is totally backwards. Even hourly, if you're in a call center where you are waiting for phone calls or cases to come in, you are still working.
Those micro-breaks to check Facebook are not stealing, their QA. Sure, MAYBE less work gets done, but I would dare say the work that gets done is better quality.
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@JaredBusch said:
@thecreativeone91 said:
@JaredBusch said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
Spending time on Facebook? Why should they care? If it doesn't impact productivity or damage the company in some way, they really shouldn't.
Because it IS theft by definition. You are stealing company resources to view this on your company computer.
And every moment when you are getting paid and NOT doing a task defined by your position (via job description, or boss said so, whatever) you are stealing from the company. You are paid to do tasks defined by your position. Nothing else.
Yes the football around the watercooler is also theft.
This is only theft is the company does not allow you to do this. Many companies encourage employees to socialize some with their co-workers during working hours when there is down time.
I agree that some companies do. Some do not.
Many, is debatable.
Most of the companies I've worked for, including Intel Security, have actually told us that when no calls are coming in, we are welcome to do basically whatever we wanted, within reason (no pr0n or the like at work obviously). However, Facebook, personal projects, whatever were welcome. You just had to be ready to work at the moment's notice, aka when the phone rang. They understood that forcing someone to try and be super-diligent all day every day actually achieves the completely opposite effect.
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@thanksajdotcom said:
@JaredBusch said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
Spending time on Facebook? Why should they care? If it doesn't impact productivity or damage the company in some way, they really shouldn't.
Because it IS theft by definition. You are stealing company resources to view this on your company computer.
And every moment when you are getting paid and NOT doing a task defined by your position (via job description, or boss said so, whatever) you are stealing from the company. You are paid to do tasks defined by your position. Nothing else.
Yes the football around the watercooler is also theft.
See, you have a very strict and black/white definition of how people should work. This is what is wrong with most businesses. They objectify how time is spent, not the results produced. Sure, someone might spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week working diligently and only taking their scheduled breaks, but maybe they're moving slower than they could. Maybe they must constantly refocus and therefore, even though they work non-stop, their quality suffers.
People should be judged by the results they deliver, not how they obtain said results. If I can do my job in 6 hours a day to a very high standard, and it takes someone else the full 8, why should I have to be "working" the other 2? If you're hourly, that is one thing. However, if you're salary, this is totally backwards. Even hourly, if you're in a call center where you are waiting for phone calls or cases to come in, you are still working.
Those micro-breaks to check Facebook are not stealing, their QA. Sure, MAYBE less work gets done, but I would dare say the work that gets done is better quality.
No, you are seeing something you do not like and putting your own crap on top.
I have not once stated that I see any part of this conversation any one way. I have clearly stated facts.That is all you.
Edit: Just to clarify, anyone who actually reads my postings on Mangolassi should have a solid idea of my work life, and by inference from that, my opinion on this type of thing.
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@JaredBusch said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
@JaredBusch said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
Spending time on Facebook? Why should they care? If it doesn't impact productivity or damage the company in some way, they really shouldn't.
Because it IS theft by definition. You are stealing company resources to view this on your company computer.
And every moment when you are getting paid and NOT doing a task defined by your position (via job description, or boss said so, whatever) you are stealing from the company. You are paid to do tasks defined by your position. Nothing else.
Yes the football around the watercooler is also theft.
See, you have a very strict and black/white definition of how people should work. This is what is wrong with most businesses. They objectify how time is spent, not the results produced. Sure, someone might spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week working diligently and only taking their scheduled breaks, but maybe they're moving slower than they could. Maybe they must constantly refocus and therefore, even though they work non-stop, their quality suffers.
People should be judged by the results they deliver, not how they obtain said results. If I can do my job in 6 hours a day to a very high standard, and it takes someone else the full 8, why should I have to be "working" the other 2? If you're hourly, that is one thing. However, if you're salary, this is totally backwards. Even hourly, if you're in a call center where you are waiting for phone calls or cases to come in, you are still working.
Those micro-breaks to check Facebook are not stealing, their QA. Sure, MAYBE less work gets done, but I would dare say the work that gets done is better quality.
No, you are seeing something you do not like and putting your own crap on top.
I have not once stated that I see any part of this conversation any one way. I have clearly stated facts.That is all you.
I have my own perspective on things, true. I don't deny that. However, from what I've seen of companies that try to micro-manage and dictate employees basically get no micro-breaks for Facebook, etc on their shifts, they kill morale, productivity, and those companies have huge turnover.
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@JaredBusch said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
@JaredBusch said:
@thanksajdotcom said:
Spending time on Facebook? Why should they care? If it doesn't impact productivity or damage the company in some way, they really shouldn't.
Because it IS theft by definition. You are stealing company resources to view this on your company computer.
And every moment when you are getting paid and NOT doing a task defined by your position (via job description, or boss said so, whatever) you are stealing from the company. You are paid to do tasks defined by your position. Nothing else.
Yes the football around the watercooler is also theft.
See, you have a very strict and black/white definition of how people should work. This is what is wrong with most businesses. They objectify how time is spent, not the results produced. Sure, someone might spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week working diligently and only taking their scheduled breaks, but maybe they're moving slower than they could. Maybe they must constantly refocus and therefore, even though they work non-stop, their quality suffers.
People should be judged by the results they deliver, not how they obtain said results. If I can do my job in 6 hours a day to a very high standard, and it takes someone else the full 8, why should I have to be "working" the other 2? If you're hourly, that is one thing. However, if you're salary, this is totally backwards. Even hourly, if you're in a call center where you are waiting for phone calls or cases to come in, you are still working.
Those micro-breaks to check Facebook are not stealing, their QA. Sure, MAYBE less work gets done, but I would dare say the work that gets done is better quality.
No, you are seeing something you do not like and putting your own crap on top.
I have not once stated that I see any part of this conversation any one way. I have clearly stated facts.That is all you.
Edit: Just to clarify, anyone who actually reads my postings on Mangolassi should have a solid idea of my work life, and by inference from that, my opinion on this type of thing.
I get the feeling you feel I'm lazy. Anyone who you talk to who knows me will tell you the exact opposite (except possibly my father but that's a different discussion). I'm the guy who works all day and all night because he cares about his job and the company he works for. I am borderline obsessive, and sometimes border-jump. But @scottalanmiller has commented on this exact thing many times. A person's work should not be judged by how they spent every minute but the results they achieved at the end of a day/week/month/year.
