How do you guys handle counter offers?
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@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@Pete-S said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
It could also be that you come in one or two days per week or something, to make it a smooth transition. It depends a little on what kind of job you had and what the new job is.
That's even worse than accepting the counter IMO. I'd be pissed if I was new employer and wouldn't trust you if I was old employer. There was a guy who did that on ML and he continually got abused by old employer for months because he refused to leave them hanging... The problem is that they always asked him for more and he kept complying because he couldn't stand up and say enough is enough.
Yeah, I agree. There are times that this can work out, but it is super rare. We had someone do that with NTG but we are a small, private company and everyone is like family. The person left because of family needs, not a career move and was super sad to be leaving. That's not the normal. Normally you leave for more money, a better position, or because you don't like the old job so there is a negative situation with the old employer, and often you are dealing with managers and such rather than the owners.
It can work, but very rarely. Normally it is terrible for everyone.
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@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
I would tell the current employer that not only is is a pay increase, but it's a career advancement as well. Which isn't possibly at your current position.
I'd not word it this way. Don't leave a door open to be perceived as a hint for a way to retain you. If they offer a career advancement too, you don't want it. But if you hint at it and they offer and you turn them down still, then it seems insincere. Make a clean break, it's not for you to defend wanting a new job. You want a job that appreciates you and doesn't make you beg or cajole or threaten to leave in order to get paid or promoted.
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@scottalanmiller said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
I would tell the current employer that not only is is a pay increase, but it's a career advancement as well. Which isn't possibly at your current position.
I'd not word it this way. Don't leave a door open to be perceived as a hint for a way to retain you. If they offer a career advancement too, you don't want it. But if you hint at it and they offer and you turn them down still, then it seems insincere. Make a clean break, it's not for you to defend wanting a new job. You want a job that appreciates you and doesn't make you beg or cajole or threaten to leave in order to get paid or promoted.
Why not? I've seen people come back to companies a few years down the road for big increases and be appreciated for it.
It's a good thing to say IMO because it shows you are career focused and the decision is not personal. You never have to accept any counter and you can give a valid reason why the new position is better than any promotion they will offer
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@scottalanmiller said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
I never, ever consider them
Exact, you are on barrowed time If you were to accept a counter. The business doesn't want that cost, they want time.
You've wanted to leave for whatever reason and said as much, so no counter would be acceptable.
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@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@scottalanmiller said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
I would tell the current employer that not only is is a pay increase, but it's a career advancement as well. Which isn't possibly at your current position.
I'd not word it this way. Don't leave a door open to be perceived as a hint for a way to retain you. If they offer a career advancement too, you don't want it. But if you hint at it and they offer and you turn them down still, then it seems insincere. Make a clean break, it's not for you to defend wanting a new job. You want a job that appreciates you and doesn't make you beg or cajole or threaten to leave in order to get paid or promoted.
Why not? I've seen people come back to companies a few years down the road for big increases and be appreciated for it.
It's a good thing to say IMO because it shows you are career focused and the decision is not personal. You never have to accept any counter and you can give a valid reason why the new position is better than any promotion they will offer
The "why not" is because it sounds like you are hinting at what you want in a counter.
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@DustinB3403 said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
Exact, you are on barrowed time If you were to accept a counter. The business doesn't want that cost, they want time.
Time to replace you with someone at or below your original cost.
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@scottalanmiller said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@DustinB3403 said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
Exact, you are on barrowed time If you were to accept a counter. The business doesn't want that cost, they want time.
Time to replace you with someone at or below your original cost.
Right, why accept maybe 1-2 months of increased pay to be replaced when your replacement is trained
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As someone who is intimately familiar with both side of that issue, I have just a few thoughts.
1st, you went to the interview because you were unhappy where you are.
2nd, if you went straight to a 50% pay increase to stay; we now know there are problems that are are not pay related at this job. As does the employer, and he has decided not to correct them, he is only trying to get you to stay long enough to fire you on his terms.
3rd, As Scott said, you may burn the bridge to the man who has faith in you today.
4th, if you leave on cordial terms, there is no reason why you couldn't come back in a few years for that 50% pay increase, but as I said earlier, the money isn't the issue, there is another problem, and I'm sure the current boss has no desire to fix it.
As an employer, I NEVER EVER make a counter offer or ask what it would take to get someone to stay. If they are leaving, and we agree to terms to make them stay, it is all but guaranteed you are only keeping them for a short while. They will leave anyway once they realize your new arrangement can't resolve the real problem.
Thank them for the offer and tell them if they have a place in the future that will help you grow in your skills and value, you would be willing to talk then. Be polite, and gracious. Burned bridges are condemned in your world!
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@JasGot Thank you for your insight.
My current employer left me as the sole IT department for 250 employees for over 10 years. I was doing help desk and project management. This was only ONE of the many factors I was looking for change. I believe the company never put a contingency plan in place if I were to leave, or get hit by a bus for that matter. When I put in my notice, they realized they had no job description for my title. I was asked to write a job description for them to use for recruitment. I was pretty shocked by that.
The company is simply trying to solve a problem now by countering and getting me to stay. They put themselves in a bind. HR mentioned that employees will want to leave if take another job. That is somewhat flattering, but what in the world does that say about the company then?
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@magicmarker said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
That is somewhat flattering, but what in the world does that say about the company then?
Yeah, that should make you ready to run away, and run away fast.
How many other people are in a similar position and the company could collapse at any moment and they have just been lucky thus far?
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@magicmarker said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
It's a 19% NET raise when factoring in benefits, commute, etc. The GROSS raise is 27%. Plus a year end bonus depending on company and personal performance.
Reminder of all the things to compare: https://thenicholson.com/thinking-taking-offer-need-know/
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@magicmarker said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
I was asked to write a job description for them to use for recruitment.
And of course you declined. ESPECIALLY since you have stated they have an HR department. This is their job,
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@StorageNinja said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@magicmarker said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
It's a 19% NET raise when factoring in benefits, commute, etc. The GROSS raise is 27%. Plus a year end bonus depending on company and personal performance.
Reminder of all the things to compare: https://thenicholson.com/thinking-taking-offer-need-know/
The fact that he is out of the one man shop and onto something bigger is an additional factor as well.
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@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
The fact that he is out of the one man shop and onto something bigger is an additional factor as well.
A HUGELY positive factor.
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@JasGot said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
The fact that he is out of the one man shop and onto something bigger is an additional factor as well.
A HUGELY positive factor.
oh yeah of course. I dont know how people get stuck in 1 man shops for so long
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@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@JasGot said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
The fact that he is out of the one man shop and onto something bigger is an additional factor as well.
A HUGELY positive factor.
oh yeah of course. I dont know how people get stuck in 1 man shops for so long
Because it's often really comfortable and once you are in you tend to feel badly for the company because leaving seems impossible for them to handle. So you tend to stay.
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@scottalanmiller said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@JasGot said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
The fact that he is out of the one man shop and onto something bigger is an additional factor as well.
A HUGELY positive factor.
oh yeah of course. I dont know how people get stuck in 1 man shops for so long
once you are in you tend to feel badly for the company because leaving seems impossible for them to handle. So you tend to stay.
Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner
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@scottalanmiller said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@JasGot said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
The fact that he is out of the one man shop and onto something bigger is an additional factor as well.
A HUGELY positive factor.
oh yeah of course. I dont know how people get stuck in 1 man shops for so long
Because it's often really comfortable and once you are in you tend to feel badly for the company because leaving seems impossible for them to handle. So you tend to stay.
cough Stockholm Syndrom
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@Obsolesce said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@scottalanmiller said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@JasGot said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
The fact that he is out of the one man shop and onto something bigger is an additional factor as well.
A HUGELY positive factor.
oh yeah of course. I dont know how people get stuck in 1 man shops for so long
Because it's often really comfortable and once you are in you tend to feel badly for the company because leaving seems impossible for them to handle. So you tend to stay.
cough Stockholm Syndrom
We had one guy on ML where I literally felt like flying to where he worked and going in there and telling his boss to fuck off, it was so bad lol.
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@scottalanmiller said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@JasGot said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
@IRJ said in How do you guys handle counter offers?:
The fact that he is out of the one man shop and onto something bigger is an additional factor as well.
A HUGELY positive factor.
oh yeah of course. I dont know how people get stuck in 1 man shops for so long
Because it's often really comfortable and once you are in you tend to feel badly for the company because leaving seems impossible for them to handle. So you tend to stay.
Seeing as how I am one of these people, I agree with both factors. There are a few other too.
The main reason I have stayed so long is my previous boss treated much better than most others in 1 man shops. I have a sense of feeling "connected" to the entire IT system as I built most of it (basically for LOB app).
On the flip side, many negatives you and others have pointed out over the years are definitely true also.
