Network setup - moving forward
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Today I have a VM server running the following VMs:
Windows Server AD/DHCP/DNS/File/Print
Windows Server Progressive SQL based Business Works accounting package
Windows Server Exchange
Windows Server WSUS
Windows Server Quest Rapid Recovery backup server
Debian - Unifi controller
Fedora - proxy (for Exchange webmail)Mitel phone system - Mitel 5000 & Mitel 5000 & Inter-Tel Axxess systems all linked together. 105 phones, acting as a single phone system.
SIP trunk delivered to main location to Mitel 5000120 Laptops/Desktops
3 MacsToday we use AD for authentication and centralized user list.
GP is used to set settings as needed on desktops/laptops
Windows File and Print servesWe have one user who requires constant remote access to their files. Their workflow is as follows:
They have a desktop in the office where they do 98% of their work.
They have a laptop - mostly for home based access - via VPN (then RDP to her office desktop).
Though frequently, this user will create, work with files directly on the laptop using the locally install Office suite.We might have a second user who would possibly use a remote access to files type of solution if it where available.
There is a single large shared volume that's used by the majority of the staff. (S:) These files are opened/edited/ by multiple people all day long.
Hot Desking - we have 20 or so stations that are hot desked (I think I'm using that right. If someone is out sick/vacation, someone else will sit there)
While Windows isn't required - the only other option is Mac as our EHR is only supported on Windows or Mac (and actually, in our case, our workflows would be crippled if moving to Macs because some functionality is not available on Macs). With this in mind - it's probably best to consider Windows a requirement. The three Macs we do have, do not need/use/want this missing functionality, so it's a non issue for them.
If I think of more details, or they come out during discussion I'll add them to this post.
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So a few grand every hand full of years to keep the Windows Servers and CALs up to date. That's really nothing at that scale.
The Windows devices are what they are.
Really, maybe move the mailboxes to O365 or one of the other cheaper favorites here, that's all I see you benefit8ng from.
What's the energy behind the need for change?
If the hardware is going EoL or something, possibly start moving services to VPSs linked with VPN. But really, between that setup and moving it offprem, it's probably not much of a difference in the end, besides create more latency which users would likely notice.
You aren't starting fresh, so there's likely a lot to consider if you're looking to gut the whole thing.
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@Obsolesce said in Network setup - moving forward:
What's the energy behind the need for change?
It's not so much about change - rather it's about doing an evaluation of the current setup and what might be a better way to go forward.
Yes, all of my infrastructure is old, and needs to be replaced.
Our use of the S: drive could likely be severely reduced if we had forms, documentation, etc in an web site instead.
Example, one thing we have tons of is Excel sheets people fill out daily - If we had a web form to fill out instead, we could likely get rid of Excel. of course on the back end (for management who wants reports) we'd need the ability to create reports from that data. that could be done with Excel, or the report could be created in the web package. But these are things I've never done before, have no clue how to do, or really where to start. I'm guessing with some sort of PHP script and a DB on the back end is the starting point.
Many people around here use NC - I could attempt to replace windows file shares with NC - but as I already mentioned, it's mostly used through a single huge shared volume - I have no idea how NC handles something like that. I can't imagine syncing 20+ GB to every computer... plus there would likely be no file locks, so people would be stepping on each other for edits, etc.
I could look at WebDAV mappings - which would mean wanting some kind of LDAP centralized authentication source to simply that for users.
I'd also what some mechanism that will auto map printers/shares, etc when users log into new computers. -
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Example, one thing we have tons of is Excel sheets people fill out daily - If we had a web form to fill out instead, we could likely get rid of Excel. of course on the back end (for management who wants reports) we'd need the ability to create reports from that data. that could be done with Excel, or the report could be created in the web package. But these are things I've never done before, have no clue how to do, or really where to start. I'm guessing with some sort of PHP script and a DB on the back end is the starting point.
The quickest and easiest way if you don't know where to start could be a PoC using WP and a forms plug in. There's some great ones. I don't know the amount of data or any details, but that could work in place of Excel. Same with generating reports of the data entered. Maybe Drupal as well.
If you can take away the dependencies first, that can open up the door for a lot of better ways than current setup.
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@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Example, one thing we have tons of is Excel sheets people fill out daily - If we had a web form to fill out instead, we could likely get rid of Excel. of course on the back end (for management who wants reports) we'd need the ability to create reports from that data. that could be done with Excel, or the report could be created in the web package. But these are things I've never done before, have no clue how to do, or really where to start. I'm guessing with some sort of PHP script and a DB on the back end is the starting point.
Easiest way (and cheapest) to make that happen is to find a developer who can do it for you.
A web interface allows the user to feed the back-end SQL database. With the data structured you have many options to use that data in meaningful ways - through a webserver or in many other ways.
PS. In my experience most companies need more than just generic forms and more than just generic reports. Usually it's about automating or support a process in the business.
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@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Many people around here use NC - I could attempt to replace windows file shares with NC - but as I already mentioned, it's mostly used through a single huge shared volume - I have no idea how NC handles something like that. I can't imagine syncing 20+ GB to every computer... plus there would likely be no file locks, so people would be stepping on each other for edits, etc.
They are working on a NC "drive" that only caches currently worked on documents. I'm hoping they release it in the near future.
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@coliver said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Many people around here use NC - I could attempt to replace windows file shares with NC - but as I already mentioned, it's mostly used through a single huge shared volume - I have no idea how NC handles something like that. I can't imagine syncing 20+ GB to every computer... plus there would likely be no file locks, so people would be stepping on each other for edits, etc.
They are working on a NC "drive" that only caches currently worked on documents. I'm hoping they release it in the near future.
Maybe like Google Drive File Sync. That could be an option depending on what all is in S:
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@Obsolesce said in Network setup - moving forward:
@coliver said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Many people around here use NC - I could attempt to replace windows file shares with NC - but as I already mentioned, it's mostly used through a single huge shared volume - I have no idea how NC handles something like that. I can't imagine syncing 20+ GB to every computer... plus there would likely be no file locks, so people would be stepping on each other for edits, etc.
They are working on a NC "drive" that only caches currently worked on documents. I'm hoping they release it in the near future.
Maybe like Google Drive File Sync. That could be an option depending on what all is in S:
Yeah, pretty much. Honestly 20GB isn't that much. Sharepoint and Onedrive could easily cover that.
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@Pete-S said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Example, one thing we have tons of is Excel sheets people fill out daily - If we had a web form to fill out instead, we could likely get rid of Excel. of course on the back end (for management who wants reports) we'd need the ability to create reports from that data. that could be done with Excel, or the report could be created in the web package. But these are things I've never done before, have no clue how to do, or really where to start. I'm guessing with some sort of PHP script and a DB on the back end is the starting point.
Easiest way (and cheapest) to make that happen is to find a developer who can do it for you.
A web interface allows the user to feed the back-end SQL database. With the data structured you have many options to use that data in meaningful ways - through a webserver or in many other ways.
PS. In my experience most companies need more than just generic forms and more than just generic reports. Usually it's about automating or support a process in the business.
Agreed. A developer is rarely expensive compared to the cost of bad workflows. The stuff that is being done is likely not hard, just unique. A decent developer might be able to make something that really improves the business, improves efficiency, and lowers the deployment costs. There is likely a bit of money to be spent, it's not going to be saved from not buying Excel, but in theory it will make your people work faster and better.
A "simple" PHP based system, with a standard RDBMS will allow you to be fast, flexible, and platform agnostic (and if you want, LANless for this component.)
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@coliver said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Many people around here use NC - I could attempt to replace windows file shares with NC - but as I already mentioned, it's mostly used through a single huge shared volume - I have no idea how NC handles something like that. I can't imagine syncing 20+ GB to every computer... plus there would likely be no file locks, so people would be stepping on each other for edits, etc.
They are working on a NC "drive" that only caches currently worked on documents. I'm hoping they release it in the near future.
That's a game changer for them.
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@Obsolesce said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Example, one thing we have tons of is Excel sheets people fill out daily - If we had a web form to fill out instead, we could likely get rid of Excel. of course on the back end (for management who wants reports) we'd need the ability to create reports from that data. that could be done with Excel, or the report could be created in the web package. But these are things I've never done before, have no clue how to do, or really where to start. I'm guessing with some sort of PHP script and a DB on the back end is the starting point.
The quickest and easiest way if you don't know where to start could be a PoC using WP and a forms plug in. There's some great ones. I don't know the amount of data or any details, but that could work in place of Excel. Same with generating reports of the data entered. Maybe Drupal as well.
If you can take away the dependencies first, that can open up the door for a lot of better ways than current setup.
For a PoC, that's likely fast. If you have access to a developer that knows what they are doing, that kind of PoC can be less than a week project.
Honestly, for a lot of firms, everything that they need is sometimes nothing more than a week long project!
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@coliver said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Many people around here use NC - I could attempt to replace windows file shares with NC - but as I already mentioned, it's mostly used through a single huge shared volume - I have no idea how NC handles something like that. I can't imagine syncing 20+ GB to every computer... plus there would likely be no file locks, so people would be stepping on each other for edits, etc.
They are working on a NC "drive" that only caches currently worked on documents. I'm hoping they release it in the near future.
OneDrive had this ages ago - though from the description, OneDrive had both clients in one - it kept marked for offline use files synced and always offline - AND - it would show the entire filesystem that was on the server.
I don't see why these functions are split over two applications?FYI - OneDrive did dump this functionality for a while because the manner in which it was originally implemented required an amount of local storage when the server side file count was large to sometimes be larger than the available space on space limited devices (like the original win10 tabs that were sold with 16 GB of storage). But MS brought the functionality back a year or two ago.
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@scottalanmiller said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Obsolesce said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Example, one thing we have tons of is Excel sheets people fill out daily - If we had a web form to fill out instead, we could likely get rid of Excel. of course on the back end (for management who wants reports) we'd need the ability to create reports from that data. that could be done with Excel, or the report could be created in the web package. But these are things I've never done before, have no clue how to do, or really where to start. I'm guessing with some sort of PHP script and a DB on the back end is the starting point.
The quickest and easiest way if you don't know where to start could be a PoC using WP and a forms plug in. There's some great ones. I don't know the amount of data or any details, but that could work in place of Excel. Same with generating reports of the data entered. Maybe Drupal as well.
If you can take away the dependencies first, that can open up the door for a lot of better ways than current setup.
For a PoC, that's likely fast. If you have access to a developer that knows what they are doing, that kind of PoC can be less than a week project.
Honestly, for a lot of firms, everything that they need is sometimes nothing more than a week long project!
Ya a Dev is likely the best option, I agree.
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@coliver said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Obsolesce said in Network setup - moving forward:
@coliver said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Many people around here use NC - I could attempt to replace windows file shares with NC - but as I already mentioned, it's mostly used through a single huge shared volume - I have no idea how NC handles something like that. I can't imagine syncing 20+ GB to every computer... plus there would likely be no file locks, so people would be stepping on each other for edits, etc.
They are working on a NC "drive" that only caches currently worked on documents. I'm hoping they release it in the near future.
Maybe like Google Drive File Sync. That could be an option depending on what all is in S:
Yeah, pretty much. Honestly 20GB isn't that much. Sharepoint and Onedrive could easily cover that.
Yeah - they can - but damn, downloading and uploading the files over the interwebs - they take forever. We're on a 100/20 pipe here, even small files still have a noticeable download delay compared to using a local FS.
That's why moving away from local edits is something I'm really keen on. If we could move to cloud edits only, or at least primarily, that could go a long way.
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@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
@coliver said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Obsolesce said in Network setup - moving forward:
@coliver said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Many people around here use NC - I could attempt to replace windows file shares with NC - but as I already mentioned, it's mostly used through a single huge shared volume - I have no idea how NC handles something like that. I can't imagine syncing 20+ GB to every computer... plus there would likely be no file locks, so people would be stepping on each other for edits, etc.
They are working on a NC "drive" that only caches currently worked on documents. I'm hoping they release it in the near future.
Maybe like Google Drive File Sync. That could be an option depending on what all is in S:
Yeah, pretty much. Honestly 20GB isn't that much. Sharepoint and Onedrive could easily cover that.
Yeah - they can - but damn, downloading and uploading the files over the interwebs - they take forever. We're on a 100/20 pipe here, even small files still have a noticeable download delay compared to using a local FS.
That's why moving away from local edits is something I'm really keen on. If we could move to cloud edits only, or at least primarily, that could go a long way.
Zoho Docs?
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@scottalanmiller said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Pete-S said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Example, one thing we have tons of is Excel sheets people fill out daily - If we had a web form to fill out instead, we could likely get rid of Excel. of course on the back end (for management who wants reports) we'd need the ability to create reports from that data. that could be done with Excel, or the report could be created in the web package. But these are things I've never done before, have no clue how to do, or really where to start. I'm guessing with some sort of PHP script and a DB on the back end is the starting point.
Easiest way (and cheapest) to make that happen is to find a developer who can do it for you.
A web interface allows the user to feed the back-end SQL database. With the data structured you have many options to use that data in meaningful ways - through a webserver or in many other ways.
PS. In my experience most companies need more than just generic forms and more than just generic reports. Usually it's about automating or support a process in the business.
Agreed. A developer is rarely expensive compared to the cost of bad workflows. The stuff that is being done is likely not hard, just unique. A decent developer might be able to make something that really improves the business, improves efficiency, and lowers the deployment costs. There is likely a bit of money to be spent, it's not going to be saved from not buying Excel, but in theory it will make your people work faster and better.
A "simple" PHP based system, with a standard RDBMS will allow you to be fast, flexible, and platform agnostic (and if you want, LANless for this component.)
Yeah, I love all those things you said - except - won't save over the cost of office.. that's what makes it hard sell. If I have to spend $5K to do this, positive my boss would say no... now - maybe the board would say something different.
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@scottalanmiller said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Obsolesce said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Example, one thing we have tons of is Excel sheets people fill out daily - If we had a web form to fill out instead, we could likely get rid of Excel. of course on the back end (for management who wants reports) we'd need the ability to create reports from that data. that could be done with Excel, or the report could be created in the web package. But these are things I've never done before, have no clue how to do, or really where to start. I'm guessing with some sort of PHP script and a DB on the back end is the starting point.
The quickest and easiest way if you don't know where to start could be a PoC using WP and a forms plug in. There's some great ones. I don't know the amount of data or any details, but that could work in place of Excel. Same with generating reports of the data entered. Maybe Drupal as well.
If you can take away the dependencies first, that can open up the door for a lot of better ways than current setup.
For a PoC, that's likely fast. If you have access to a developer that knows what they are doing, that kind of PoC can be less than a week project.
Honestly, for a lot of firms, everything that they need is sometimes nothing more than a week long project!
Oh I agree, this likely would be a week long project, but a week is still $4K+ assuming $100/hr - but maybe I'm really high on my expectation of cost - what would a dev expect to get paid hourly for something like this, assuming "a week" type project?
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@scottalanmiller said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
@coliver said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Obsolesce said in Network setup - moving forward:
@coliver said in Network setup - moving forward:
@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Many people around here use NC - I could attempt to replace windows file shares with NC - but as I already mentioned, it's mostly used through a single huge shared volume - I have no idea how NC handles something like that. I can't imagine syncing 20+ GB to every computer... plus there would likely be no file locks, so people would be stepping on each other for edits, etc.
They are working on a NC "drive" that only caches currently worked on documents. I'm hoping they release it in the near future.
Maybe like Google Drive File Sync. That could be an option depending on what all is in S:
Yeah, pretty much. Honestly 20GB isn't that much. Sharepoint and Onedrive could easily cover that.
Yeah - they can - but damn, downloading and uploading the files over the interwebs - they take forever. We're on a 100/20 pipe here, even small files still have a noticeable download delay compared to using a local FS.
That's why moving away from local edits is something I'm really keen on. If we could move to cloud edits only, or at least primarily, that could go a long way.
Zoho Docs?
Or O365.
our chances of leaving the Exchange Eco-system is near zero.
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@scottalanmiller said in Network setup - moving forward:
There is likely a bit of money to be spent, it's not going to be saved from not buying Excel, but in theory it will make your people work faster and better.
Dumping the office suite entirely for LibreOffice (especially when considering the subscription cost of O365) would save a lot of money in the long haul.
But there is very likely a conversion that would have to be done on each custom Excel file if they have any special formulas etc.
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@Dashrender said in Network setup - moving forward:
Yeah, I love all those things you said - except - won't save over the cost of office.. that's what makes it hard sell.
My point was... it'll easily save over the cost of it (in most cases.)
