Veeam with NetApp?
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I was reading about a company where they mentioned that they are setting up one or a few VMware hosts on-prem and using Veeam with NetApp as a backup solution. And that's all the info I have.
I was wondering what kind of backup solution / products they are likely to be talking about?
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NetApp makes high cost, low performance NAS devices on double parity RAID 4 (basically RAID 6 but using older RAID 4 tech instead of RAID 5 based.) They could be talking about any NetApp product as that's basically what they all do. You just pick one based on size.
I can't think of any situation where I'd want to do this, though. NetApp has strengths, but extremely few, and this isn't one of them. The reason that people chose NetApp for this is because they want RAID 6 with spinning disks but the write penalty is too high and RAID-DP while not quite as safe and not as fast for restores, is slightly faster for writes. But there are way faster options for less money, making it a moot benefit.
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@scottalanmiller said in Veeam with NetApp?:
NetApp makes high cost, low performance NAS devices on double parity RAID 4 (basically RAID 6 but using older RAID 4 tech instead of RAID 5 based.) They could be talking about any NetApp product as that's basically what they all do. You just pick one based on size.
I can't think of any situation where I'd want to do this, though. NetApp has strengths, but extremely few, and this isn't one of them. The reason that people chose NetApp for this is because they want RAID 6 with spinning disks but the write penalty is too high and RAID-DP while not quite as safe and not as fast for restores, is slightly faster for writes. But there are way faster options for less money, making it a moot benefit.
OK, thanks. So in it's basic form they are talking about VM snapshot backups to a NAS?
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@scottalanmiller said in Veeam with NetApp?:
But there are way faster options for less money, making it a moot benefit.
Do you mean as a total solution or a faster NAS?
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@Pete-S said in Veeam with NetApp?:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam with NetApp?:
NetApp makes high cost, low performance NAS devices on double parity RAID 4 (basically RAID 6 but using older RAID 4 tech instead of RAID 5 based.) They could be talking about any NetApp product as that's basically what they all do. You just pick one based on size.
I can't think of any situation where I'd want to do this, though. NetApp has strengths, but extremely few, and this isn't one of them. The reason that people chose NetApp for this is because they want RAID 6 with spinning disks but the write penalty is too high and RAID-DP while not quite as safe and not as fast for restores, is slightly faster for writes. But there are way faster options for less money, making it a moot benefit.
OK, thanks. So in it's basic form they are talking about VM snapshot backups to a NAS?
Yeah, it would just be SMB or NFS mounts doing normal backup storage.
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@Pete-S said in Veeam with NetApp?:
@scottalanmiller said in Veeam with NetApp?:
But there are way faster options for less money, making it a moot benefit.
Do you mean as a total solution or a faster NAS?
As a faster NAS. Veeam to a NAS is standard and basically the only option other than local storage. NetApp is just not a good storage option in general.
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I have used Veeam with Synology for several years now. Currently, I have a DS3617xs (12-bay) with OBR10. The bottleneck on that is the single Gb NIC I am using. It has 4 that you can team but also install 10Gb. I have one installed in the NAS but haven't run the fiber from the server room to my office (where it is located).
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@scottalanmiller said in Veeam with NetApp?:
NetApp makes high cost, low performance NAS devices on double parity RAID 4 (basically RAID 6 but using older RAID 4 tech instead of RAID 5 based.) They could be talking about any NetApp product as that's basically what they all do. You just pick one based on size.
This isn't really true.
Netapp E-Series is the same as the old Dell MD36xxx or the LSI enginio code base (IBM also sold a similar low-end modular array). These things were wicked fast/cost-effective at streaming workloads (got used for Lustre clusters a lot as the DAS on the nodes). Dell's abandoned reselling them for Seagate (Dothill) but they still around.Netapp also bought solidfire (Scale-out iSCSI storage system, originally positioned for service providers now offered as part of "Netapp HCI"). Best in class QoS, and also has vVols support.
The Netapp AFF is the new all-flash units. focused largely on data efficiency.
Veeam has API integration for arrays so that it can offload snapshots to the array. You'd still need something else to target.
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@StorageNinja said in Veeam with NetApp?:
Netapp E-Series is the same as the old Dell MD36xxx or the LSI enginio code base (IBM also sold a similar low-end modular array). These things were wicked fast/cost-effective at streaming workloads (got used for Lustre clusters a lot as the DAS on the nodes). Dell's abandoned reselling them for Seagate (Dothill) but they still around
Not wicked fast compared to building your own. And the staggering lack of internal support if anything goes wrong is a big deal... storage is one of those things you want to have work, especially at these price ranges. Having been a NetApp customer, I know that their support is helpless when it comes to trying to do high performance, their crap just falls over and so do their engineers.
