IS BASIC programming still in vogue?
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@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...
You could talk to a tree for the same effect
Not a good idea to start with VB when you want to learn programmingNot starting to learning programming, just need to also work with our legacy code
That's the problem with VB, it's all for ancient "we can't update it" code. VB was okay through around 1999, but never in the .NET era. So any legacy code made with it is pretty much guaranteed to have originated from a "developer" that was just mucking about and couldn't adapt to a more modern language and was carrying over bad VB habits from the 90s; and then a company that never updated code for close to twenty years now.
2 years left on the roadmap to have migrated all of our legacy code. It's a lot of work when you have a whole LoB application originally created in VB6.
I just took a client that has an entire LoB app in VB6. The question will be if they accept my cost estimate to update it.
Going to triage their need to update the DB server (Server 2003 running SQL 2005), but nothing else will be done unless they agree to update.
So potentially not a client for long
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@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...
You could talk to a tree for the same effect
Not a good idea to start with VB when you want to learn programmingNot starting to learning programming, just need to also work with our legacy code
That's the problem with VB, it's all for ancient "we can't update it" code. VB was okay through around 1999, but never in the .NET era. So any legacy code made with it is pretty much guaranteed to have originated from a "developer" that was just mucking about and couldn't adapt to a more modern language and was carrying over bad VB habits from the 90s; and then a company that never updated code for close to twenty years now.
2 years left on the roadmap to have migrated all of our legacy code. It's a lot of work when you have a whole LoB application originally created in VB6.
Wiat, you are REALLY doing VB6 with a book from 1998? I thought that you were kidding about that, lol. I figured you just were working on late VB.NET code and being silly with the VB6 thing. Damn.
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@jaredbusch said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
That's exactly why I prefer the more modern VSC and why Atom and Sublime are seen as more "serious" than VS most of the time - full time developers tend to prefer lighter, more flexible coding environments than the big, monolithic, bloated systems like VS or Eclipse. That VS is so focused on one single run time makes it that much worse, very few full time devs can or want to work on a single runtime all the time. Coding is just much more broad than that.
Scripts and structured languages like HTML, yes. I am in VSC all the time myself.
But compiled code requires a development environment that you can do things like debugging in.
That is not bloat. I need to be able to step the the executing application line by line at times to find that weird bug.
For Windows, this is VS. I have no idea what it would be for the Linux ecosystem more than
maketo compile.I understand that, but VS Code offers that.
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@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...
You could talk to a tree for the same effect
Not a good idea to start with VB when you want to learn programmingNot starting to learning programming, just need to also work with our legacy code
That's the problem with VB, it's all for ancient "we can't update it" code. VB was okay through around 1999, but never in the .NET era. So any legacy code made with it is pretty much guaranteed to have originated from a "developer" that was just mucking about and couldn't adapt to a more modern language and was carrying over bad VB habits from the 90s; and then a company that never updated code for close to twenty years now.
2 years left on the roadmap to have migrated all of our legacy code. It's a lot of work when you have a whole LoB application originally created in VB6.
The last one of these, I worked on went live in 2011. It was a horrid VB6 + Access database backend.
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@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@jaredbusch said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
That's exactly why I prefer the more modern VSC and why Atom and Sublime are seen as more "serious" than VS most of the time - full time developers tend to prefer lighter, more flexible coding environments than the big, monolithic, bloated systems like VS or Eclipse. That VS is so focused on one single run time makes it that much worse, very few full time devs can or want to work on a single runtime all the time. Coding is just much more broad than that.
Scripts and structured languages like HTML, yes. I am in VSC all the time myself.
But compiled code requires a development environment that you can do things like debugging in.
That is not bloat. I need to be able to step the the executing application line by line at times to find that weird bug.
For Windows, this is VS. I have no idea what it would be for the Linux ecosystem more than
maketo compile.I understand that, but VS Code offers that.
Yes, but not designed for more than Node.js and other JS code. You have to get potentially 3rd party add ons.
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@jaredbusch said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@jaredbusch said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
That's exactly why I prefer the more modern VSC and why Atom and Sublime are seen as more "serious" than VS most of the time - full time developers tend to prefer lighter, more flexible coding environments than the big, monolithic, bloated systems like VS or Eclipse. That VS is so focused on one single run time makes it that much worse, very few full time devs can or want to work on a single runtime all the time. Coding is just much more broad than that.
Scripts and structured languages like HTML, yes. I am in VSC all the time myself.
But compiled code requires a development environment that you can do things like debugging in.
That is not bloat. I need to be able to step the the executing application line by line at times to find that weird bug.
For Windows, this is VS. I have no idea what it would be for the Linux ecosystem more than
maketo compile.I understand that, but VS Code offers that.
Yes, but not designed for more than Node.js and other JS code. You have to get potentially 3rd party add ons.
Not for C#, Microsoft themselves make it. VS doesn't have it for unlimited languages either. So they are the same in that regard.
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Here is Microsoft's own C# debugging extension for VS Code. No third party products needed, but they are offered. It's just not added by default to avoid bloat as VSC is used for many languages, so most people don't want all of this in there.
This is the C# module that I use with VSC and see Microsoft's own debugger on the screen, hence why I pointed out using VSC for C# in the first place.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.csharp
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@jaredbusch said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
That's exactly why I prefer the more modern VSC and why Atom and Sublime are seen as more "serious" than VS most of the time - full time developers tend to prefer lighter, more flexible coding environments than the big, monolithic, bloated systems like VS or Eclipse. That VS is so focused on one single run time makes it that much worse, very few full time devs can or want to work on a single runtime all the time. Coding is just much more broad than that.
Scripts and structured languages like HTML, yes. I am in VSC all the time myself.
But compiled code requires a development environment that you can do things like debugging in.
^ this
You just don't want to have a simple editor with a little "project management" when you have tens of thousands of codelines in hundreds of files.
That is not bloat. I need to be able to step the the executing application line by line at times to find that weird bug.
For Windows, this is VS. I have no idea what it would be for the Linux ecosystem more than
maketo compile.There are many toolchains available, most of them wrap around make, gcc and your editor and debugger of choice. Eclipse, because it's cross platform, is a popular IDE here. Besides of being cross platform, it's something I try to avoid.
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@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
Here is Microsoft's own C# debugging extension for VS Code. No third party products needed, but they are offered. It's just not added by default to avoid bloat as VSC is used for many languages, so most people don't want all of this in there.
This is the C# module that I use with VSC and see Microsoft's own debugger on the screen, hence why I pointed out using VSC for C# in the first place.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.csharp
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
Here is Microsoft's own C# debugging extension for VS Code. No third party products needed, but they are offered. It's just not added by default to avoid bloat as VSC is used for many languages, so most people don't want all of this in there.
This is the C# module that I use with VSC and see Microsoft's own debugger on the screen, hence why I pointed out using VSC for C# in the first place.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.csharp
You can run Roslin with notepad.exe, if you want. But you won't want that.
Really, Scott, comparing VS Code to VS is like saying that a monitor is a printer. Two different worlds.
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@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
Here is Microsoft's own C# debugging extension for VS Code. No third party products needed, but they are offered. It's just not added by default to avoid bloat as VSC is used for many languages, so most people don't want all of this in there.
This is the C# module that I use with VSC and see Microsoft's own debugger on the screen, hence why I pointed out using VSC for C# in the first place.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.csharp
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
Here is Microsoft's own C# debugging extension for VS Code. No third party products needed, but they are offered. It's just not added by default to avoid bloat as VSC is used for many languages, so most people don't want all of this in there.
This is the C# module that I use with VSC and see Microsoft's own debugger on the screen, hence why I pointed out using VSC for C# in the first place.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.csharp
You can run Roslin with notepad.exe, if you want. But you won't want that.
Really, Scott, comparing VS Code to VS is like saying that a monitor is a printer. Two different worlds.
I've used both, yes they are very different, but VSC is a vastly more enterprise ready full IDE than people are giving it credit for. VS is very slow, bloated and limited. VSC is light and a very different approach. But it is a full IDE and very powerful.
And yes, you truly compare them because for any business, you have to choose which makes more sense for your business. And even companies doing full time C# have to consider that VSC can be a very viable choice.
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@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
Here is Microsoft's own C# debugging extension for VS Code. No third party products needed, but they are offered. It's just not added by default to avoid bloat as VSC is used for many languages, so most people don't want all of this in there.
This is the C# module that I use with VSC and see Microsoft's own debugger on the screen, hence why I pointed out using VSC for C# in the first place.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.csharp
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
Here is Microsoft's own C# debugging extension for VS Code. No third party products needed, but they are offered. It's just not added by default to avoid bloat as VSC is used for many languages, so most people don't want all of this in there.
This is the C# module that I use with VSC and see Microsoft's own debugger on the screen, hence why I pointed out using VSC for C# in the first place.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.csharp
You can run Roslin with notepad.exe, if you want. But you won't want that.
Really, Scott, comparing VS Code to VS is like saying that a monitor is a printer. Two different worlds.
I've used both, yes they are very different, but VSC is a vastly more enterprise ready full IDE than people are giving it credit for. VS is very slow, bloated and limited. VSC is light and a very different approach. But it is a full IDE and very powerful.
And yes, you truly compare them because for any business, you have to choose which makes more sense for your business. And even companies doing full time C# have to consider that VSC can be a very viable choice.
I can't agree here. Not at this point in time. Microsoft itself said that VSCode is not meant to replace VS. Apple and oranges, when we talk about .NET development.
Anyway, if VSCode works for you, that's great. It's a good editor. I use it too - but not for C# development
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@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
VS is very slow, bloated and limited.
About vs being slow: When did you try it the last time?
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@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
VS is very slow, bloated and limited.
About vs being slow: When did you try it the last time?
Been a while, it was slow and required a slow OS. Just the fact that it requires Windows alone makes it very poor for development. Is any OS worse for it than that?
We used VS a ton this past week, my first time in a while, OMG it was awful. It encourages such bad processes. 30 minutes just to test an app.
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@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
Here is Microsoft's own C# debugging extension for VS Code. No third party products needed, but they are offered. It's just not added by default to avoid bloat as VSC is used for many languages, so most people don't want all of this in there.
This is the C# module that I use with VSC and see Microsoft's own debugger on the screen, hence why I pointed out using VSC for C# in the first place.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.csharp
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
Here is Microsoft's own C# debugging extension for VS Code. No third party products needed, but they are offered. It's just not added by default to avoid bloat as VSC is used for many languages, so most people don't want all of this in there.
This is the C# module that I use with VSC and see Microsoft's own debugger on the screen, hence why I pointed out using VSC for C# in the first place.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.csharp
You can run Roslin with notepad.exe, if you want. But you won't want that.
Really, Scott, comparing VS Code to VS is like saying that a monitor is a printer. Two different worlds.
I've used both, yes they are very different, but VSC is a vastly more enterprise ready full IDE than people are giving it credit for. VS is very slow, bloated and limited. VSC is light and a very different approach. But it is a full IDE and very powerful.
And yes, you truly compare them because for any business, you have to choose which makes more sense for your business. And even companies doing full time C# have to consider that VSC can be a very viable choice.
I can't agree here. Not at this point in time. Microsoft itself said that VSCode is not meant to replace VS. Apple and oranges, when we talk about .NET development.
Anyway, if VSCode works for you, that's great. It's a good editor. I use it too - but not for C# development
Right, it's not meant to replace it, it's meant to be better
Have you tried C# on VSC? It works great from what I can tell. What is it missing for you? -
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
Here is Microsoft's own C# debugging extension for VS Code. No third party products needed, but they are offered. It's just not added by default to avoid bloat as VSC is used for many languages, so most people don't want all of this in there.
This is the C# module that I use with VSC and see Microsoft's own debugger on the screen, hence why I pointed out using VSC for C# in the first place.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.csharp
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
Here is Microsoft's own C# debugging extension for VS Code. No third party products needed, but they are offered. It's just not added by default to avoid bloat as VSC is used for many languages, so most people don't want all of this in there.
This is the C# module that I use with VSC and see Microsoft's own debugger on the screen, hence why I pointed out using VSC for C# in the first place.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.csharp
You can run Roslin with notepad.exe, if you want. But you won't want that.
Really, Scott, comparing VS Code to VS is like saying that a monitor is a printer. Two different worlds.
I've used both, yes they are very different, but VSC is a vastly more enterprise ready full IDE than people are giving it credit for. VS is very slow, bloated and limited. VSC is light and a very different approach. But it is a full IDE and very powerful.
And yes, you truly compare them because for any business, you have to choose which makes more sense for your business. And even companies doing full time C# have to consider that VSC can be a very viable choice.
I can't agree here. Not at this point in time. Microsoft itself said that VSCode is not meant to replace VS. Apple and oranges, when we talk about .NET development.
Anyway, if VSCode works for you, that's great. It's a good editor. I use it too - but not for C# development
Right, it's not meant to replace it, it's meant to be better
Have you tried C# on VSC? It works great from what I can tell. What is it missing for you?Yup, I did. Even a few times. And it does not meet my requirements.
A "what's not missing" list would be way shorter.
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@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
VS is very slow, bloated and limited.
About vs being slow: When did you try it the last time?
Been a while, it was slow and required a slow OS. Just the fact that it requires Windows alone makes it very poor for development. Is any OS worse for it than that?
We used VS a ton this past week, my first time in a while, OMG it was awful. It encourages such bad processes. 30 minutes just to test an app.
Try 2015 / 2017.
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@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
VS is very slow, bloated and limited.
About vs being slow: When did you try it the last time?
Been a while, it was slow and required a slow OS. Just the fact that it requires Windows alone makes it very poor for development. Is any OS worse for it than that?
We used VS a ton this past week, my first time in a while, OMG it was awful. It encourages such bad processes. 30 minutes just to test an app.
Try 2015 / 2017.
Not sure which version we were using this past week, did not investigate. But I thought that it was 2015. They are licensed on MSDN so have no reason to be behind by any significant amount.
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@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
Here is Microsoft's own C# debugging extension for VS Code. No third party products needed, but they are offered. It's just not added by default to avoid bloat as VSC is used for many languages, so most people don't want all of this in there.
This is the C# module that I use with VSC and see Microsoft's own debugger on the screen, hence why I pointed out using VSC for C# in the first place.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.csharp
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
Here is Microsoft's own C# debugging extension for VS Code. No third party products needed, but they are offered. It's just not added by default to avoid bloat as VSC is used for many languages, so most people don't want all of this in there.
This is the C# module that I use with VSC and see Microsoft's own debugger on the screen, hence why I pointed out using VSC for C# in the first place.
https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=ms-vscode.csharp
You can run Roslin with notepad.exe, if you want. But you won't want that.
Really, Scott, comparing VS Code to VS is like saying that a monitor is a printer. Two different worlds.
I've used both, yes they are very different, but VSC is a vastly more enterprise ready full IDE than people are giving it credit for. VS is very slow, bloated and limited. VSC is light and a very different approach. But it is a full IDE and very powerful.
And yes, you truly compare them because for any business, you have to choose which makes more sense for your business. And even companies doing full time C# have to consider that VSC can be a very viable choice.
I can't agree here. Not at this point in time. Microsoft itself said that VSCode is not meant to replace VS. Apple and oranges, when we talk about .NET development.
Anyway, if VSCode works for you, that's great. It's a good editor. I use it too - but not for C# development
Right, it's not meant to replace it, it's meant to be better
Have you tried C# on VSC? It works great from what I can tell. What is it missing for you?Yup, I did. Even a few times. And it does not meet my requirements.
A "what's not missing" list would be way shorter.
When I used VS in the past (and I have run dev organizations) one of my bigger complains was always that it just had "so much crap" in it. It makes it distracting and hard to really focus on coding.
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@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...
You could talk to a tree for the same effect
Not a good idea to start with VB when you want to learn programmingNot starting to learning programming, just need to also work with our legacy code
That's the problem with VB, it's all for ancient "we can't update it" code. VB was okay through around 1999, but never in the .NET era. So any legacy code made with it is pretty much guaranteed to have originated from a "developer" that was just mucking about and couldn't adapt to a more modern language and was carrying over bad VB habits from the 90s; and then a company that never updated code for close to twenty years now.
2 years left on the roadmap to have migrated all of our legacy code. It's a lot of work when you have a whole LoB application originally created in VB6.
Wiat, you are REALLY doing VB6 with a book from 1998? I thought that you were kidding about that, lol. I figured you just were working on late VB.NET code and being silly with the VB6 thing. Damn.
No joke, our main executable is still VB6, and quite a few of our libraries. We have a couple libraries in VB.NET, but C# is what we use for anything new.
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@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@scottalanmiller said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@thwr said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
@flaxking said in IS BASIC programming still in vogue?:
I am currently learning VB6 from a 1998 textbook...
You could talk to a tree for the same effect
Not a good idea to start with VB when you want to learn programmingNot starting to learning programming, just need to also work with our legacy code
That's the problem with VB, it's all for ancient "we can't update it" code. VB was okay through around 1999, but never in the .NET era. So any legacy code made with it is pretty much guaranteed to have originated from a "developer" that was just mucking about and couldn't adapt to a more modern language and was carrying over bad VB habits from the 90s; and then a company that never updated code for close to twenty years now.
2 years left on the roadmap to have migrated all of our legacy code. It's a lot of work when you have a whole LoB application originally created in VB6.
Wiat, you are REALLY doing VB6 with a book from 1998? I thought that you were kidding about that, lol. I figured you just were working on late VB.NET code and being silly with the VB6 thing. Damn.
No joke, our main executable is still VB6, and quite a few of our libraries. We have a couple libraries in VB.NET, but C# is what we use for anything new.
That's crazy. What a pain that must be to support. We were lucky, we did our big app in VB6 in the 90s, but were almost all to C# by 2002.
