Mobile Payments
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I really love the idea of mobile payments, assuming they do it right, and each transaction is done via a secure onetime code generated on the fly. As already mentioned in this thread, this would make hacking Target or anyone useless from a stolen payment POV.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
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@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
I felt the same way about PP.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
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@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
Can't plus this enough.
It's really sad that the banks didn't come up with this rock solid technology themselves - I can't see how it wouldn't save them billions on stolen CC charges, etc - but alas they didn't give a crap.. so others, like Apple and Google have stepped.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
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@dashrender said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
Can't plus this enough.
It's really sad that the banks didn't come up with this rock solid technology themselves - I can't see how it wouldn't save them billions on stolen CC charges, etc - but alas they didn't give a crap.. so others, like Apple and Google have stepped.
Banks don't make devices, it wasn't the banks place to do it, really. It's too costly for a bank to do, not worth it to them.
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@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
I totally trust a Google Home device to not solice and steal my banking data, if that is what you just asked.
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Basically you just asked me if I trust that Google, a giant corporation with billions and billions of dollars to lose, will not engage in reckless, insane behaviour to intentionally commit a felony by attempting to steal credit card data and identities? Think that through. Is there any large, well known company that has ever engaged in behaviour like that? You can't get big, have so much to lose, and do things so petty and dangerous.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
I totally trust a Google Home device to not solice and steal my banking data, if that is what you just asked.
Not so much in stealing your banking data, but in listening in on your every day lives, waiting for a keyword.
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@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
I totally trust a Google Home device to not solice and steal my banking data, if that is what you just asked.
Not so much in stealing your banking data, but in listening in on your every day lives, waiting for a keyword.
That's nothing to do with the question. We are talking about banking data that is entrusted to them and you asked about that trust.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
I totally trust a Google Home device to not solice and steal my banking data, if that is what you just asked.
Not so much in stealing your banking data, but in listening in on your every day lives, waiting for a keyword.
That's nothing to do with the question. We are talking about banking data that is entrusted to them and you asked about that trust.
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
Beyond banking.
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@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
I totally trust a Google Home device to not solice and steal my banking data, if that is what you just asked.
Not so much in stealing your banking data, but in listening in on your every day lives, waiting for a keyword.
I think that you are using trust in a very weird way here. Much like the discussions where we "trust" a salesman. Most people use "trust their salesman" to mean that they expect him to be unethical and help them out against his values. I mean "trust my salesman" meaning that I trust him to be ethical and uphold his social agreement.
Trust is a very loose term, much like freedom. I trust Google will not lie to me and use their technology to commit really significant crimes against me to steal banking data that they are entrusted to protect. I also trust them to use their data collection technologies as intended to collect as much info on me as they can. So the trust is universal, but you are stating it in a way that makes me think you mean trust in the incorrect "doing things that I randomly want them to do" way.
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@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
I see where you are coming from, but does this logic apply to the whole ecosystem of a particular company, such as Google/Apple? Would you gladly install Google Home or a Nest thermostat with that same logic?
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
I totally trust a Google Home device to not solice and steal my banking data, if that is what you just asked.
Not so much in stealing your banking data, but in listening in on your every day lives, waiting for a keyword.
That's nothing to do with the question. We are talking about banking data that is entrusted to them and you asked about that trust.
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
I am not making a point here but just wanting to see how far this trust goes.
Beyond banking.
But it is a banking trust, there is no context beyond that. The question has no meaning beyond banking.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@dashrender said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
Can't plus this enough.
It's really sad that the banks didn't come up with this rock solid technology themselves - I can't see how it wouldn't save them billions on stolen CC charges, etc - but alas they didn't give a crap.. so others, like Apple and Google have stepped.
Banks don't make devices, it wasn't the banks place to do it, really. It's too costly for a bank to do, not worth it to them.
What? The bank could make an app.
Basically what you've just said is, if you don't make a phone (or a device of some type), don't both, not your place. Not sure I agree, but willing to hear more why you think this.
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@dashrender said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@dashrender said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
@nerdydad said in Mobile Payments:
The paranoid person in me is screaming no because I'd be storing my card information onto a device that I only half way trust.
The bank already stores all of that.
Yes they do, because they are the ones that issued the card to me.
Unless this is audited by a 3rd party and is shown as secure, I wouldn't know if I could trust it or not. We're talking a lot about convenience here and some about security/privacy.
No, we are specifically talking about security. Mobile payments from someone like Apple who does way more security and is way more well known for security and has way more security reputation on the line is the key selling point.
But what would protect me from Apple/Google in this case?
The law, business logic, the technology. You can't serously be worried about the people most likely to protect you. If you are worried about them, then you are stuck with cash. These are THE people to go to for security. It's beyond irrational to think that there is any risk there. They are not from whom you need protected. You are protected by the market, there is no value to them stealing from you, only value in them protecting you.
Can't plus this enough.
It's really sad that the banks didn't come up with this rock solid technology themselves - I can't see how it wouldn't save them billions on stolen CC charges, etc - but alas they didn't give a crap.. so others, like Apple and Google have stepped.
Banks don't make devices, it wasn't the banks place to do it, really. It's too costly for a bank to do, not worth it to them.
What? The bank could make an app.
Basically what you've just said is, if you don't make a phone (or a device of some type), don't both, not your place. Not sure I agree, but willing to hear more why you think this.
Because part of the trust is in the security mechanisms that the bank does not control.
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@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
Basically you just asked me if I trust that Google, a giant corporation with billions and billions of dollars to lose, will not engage in reckless, insane behaviour to intentionally commit a felony by attempting to steal credit card data and identities? Think that through. Is there any large, well known company that has ever engaged in behaviour like that? You can't get big, have so much to lose, and do things so petty and dangerous.
You can't - do you not remember the banks that were to big to fail? They weren't reckless directly to the consumer, but they were reckless in their investments, etc.
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@dashrender said in Mobile Payments:
@scottalanmiller said in Mobile Payments:
Basically you just asked me if I trust that Google, a giant corporation with billions and billions of dollars to lose, will not engage in reckless, insane behaviour to intentionally commit a felony by attempting to steal credit card data and identities? Think that through. Is there any large, well known company that has ever engaged in behaviour like that? You can't get big, have so much to lose, and do things so petty and dangerous.
You can't - do you not remember the banks that were to big to fail? They weren't reckless directly to the consumer, but they were reckless in their investments, etc.
That's false. Your information is from the news and was falsified. Maybe some of the banks were in bad positions, but that's not what that was about at all. That's what was fed to the public to get people to vote to shift resources away from the public sector.
