What Are You Doing Right Now

@dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@quixoticjustin said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@quixoticjustin said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@quixoticjustin said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@kelly said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@QuixoticJeremy @QuixoticJustin Maybe this needs to have its own thread, but how are you funding your tools? I'm always interested in working with new tools, but the world of FOSS is littered with abandonware.

We are funded by a private equity group in Texas that invests in technology-related businesses, primarily. I doubt that we will be going anywhere, we have no venture capital type people to answer to, and our backers have been around for a long time and are just changing their investment style. Traditional VC is churn and burn (build it up, get market, sell it) but ours are long term growth investors - they specialize in building long running businesses focused on revenues years out and make their returns from operational success, not selling to a larger player like California style VC focuses on.

I find the highlighted thing hard/impossible to believe. They might not be leaning on you, but I'm assuming they own enough of the company to make your life difficult at minimum, bad at worse.

Maybe I worded that poorly. I meant that there are NO venture capital people to answer to. Not that the ones we have don't ask for answers. I mean we aren't VC funded, no VCs in site. Because we have no VCs, there are none to answer to at all.

Aww, well then you're either part owners yourself or employees, But I'm assuming there is still a CEO to answer to.

I'm not sure I follow the logic here. A CEO is not like a VC. And why would all staff be owners if there aren't VCs? Maybe I'm being unclear, but a VC is an extremely specific type of investor that normal companies do not use. Do you have VCs investing in your workplace that expect to build and sell the company off in just a couple of years? Assuming you don't, does that then make you a part owner of that company?

Well you're stuck on the VC thing - I was more talking about 'people to answer to' part. You have people to answer to, they just aren't VCs. That's true even if the people you're answering to is yourself.

This whole sub-topic came from:

@kelly said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@QuixoticJeremy @QuixoticJustin Maybe this needs to have its own thread, but how are you funding your tools? I'm always interested in working with new tools, but the world of FOSS is littered with abandonware.

Your answer brought in VCs, not his question. So getting back to his question - where does funding come from? If not from VCs, then where?

I'm also curious what tools @Kelly is talking about? Is he talking about you purchasing software to help you make your software? i.e. IDEs (though many are free) or is he talking about who's paying you to make Sodium, or another way to look at it, how are you surviving financially while making this? Which we already know the answer to that second part - you still have a full time day job. You're writing Sodium on your own time after hours. So other than hosting, I'm wondering what expenses you have? Considering the people involved, I'd be very surprised if the entire thing isn't being written in FOSS solutions to keep you out of any lock-in.

I was curious about their business model to keep the products moving forward when they're free and hosted. Those two are much harder to combine and be at least revenue neutral.

Alright, I'm going to post a response here but put a LARGE disclaimer that this is not my side of things. I'm not apart of these talks I just know what comes down the pipes for me to work on for design. I do know that there are talks of ad revenue but with a pointed stipulation that it all be IT focused and not obnoxious, it can't get in the way of the admins doing their jobs and disrupt the flow of everything. Very tasteful, actually fairly similarly to the ads here on Mango, it's off to the side, only one ad and doesn't prevent others from doing things. That is all I've heard of at least so far. Likely Justin would be able to answer more clearly but I figured I'd throw up something until he gets back.

So again the disclaimer is there that I am an Engineer, I do not handle information on this side of things. If I'm wrong which I very well could be then my apologies. Not to mention what knowledge I do have that comes down the pipes changes at times so take what you will from this and take it with a grain of ..... sodium

dafyre

@quixoticjeremy said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

with a grain of ..... sodium

QuixoticJustin

@dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@quixoticjustin said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@quixoticjustin said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@quixoticjustin said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@kelly said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@QuixoticJeremy @QuixoticJustin Maybe this needs to have its own thread, but how are you funding your tools? I'm always interested in working with new tools, but the world of FOSS is littered with abandonware.

We are funded by a private equity group in Texas that invests in technology-related businesses, primarily. I doubt that we will be going anywhere, we have no venture capital type people to answer to, and our backers have been around for a long time and are just changing their investment style. Traditional VC is churn and burn (build it up, get market, sell it) but ours are long term growth investors - they specialize in building long running businesses focused on revenues years out and make their returns from operational success, not selling to a larger player like California style VC focuses on.

I find the highlighted thing hard/impossible to believe. They might not be leaning on you, but I'm assuming they own enough of the company to make your life difficult at minimum, bad at worse.

Maybe I worded that poorly. I meant that there are NO venture capital people to answer to. Not that the ones we have don't ask for answers. I mean we aren't VC funded, no VCs in site. Because we have no VCs, there are none to answer to at all.

Aww, well then you're either part owners yourself or employees, But I'm assuming there is still a CEO to answer to.

I'm not sure I follow the logic here. A CEO is not like a VC. And why would all staff be owners if there aren't VCs? Maybe I'm being unclear, but a VC is an extremely specific type of investor that normal companies do not use. Do you have VCs investing in your workplace that expect to build and sell the company off in just a couple of years? Assuming you don't, does that then make you a part owner of that company?

Well you're stuck on the VC thing - I was more talking about 'people to answer to' part. You have people to answer to, they just aren't VCs. That's true even if the people you're answering to is yourself.

What's the question about answering to, then? Of course we answer to management. Do you? What issue does having a manager have? I'm afraid I don't understand the concerns caused by being managed.

QuixoticJustin

@dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@kelly said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@quixoticjustin said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@quixoticjustin said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@quixoticjustin said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@kelly said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@QuixoticJeremy @QuixoticJustin Maybe this needs to have its own thread, but how are you funding your tools? I'm always interested in working with new tools, but the world of FOSS is littered with abandonware.

We are funded by a private equity group in Texas that invests in technology-related businesses, primarily. I doubt that we will be going anywhere, we have no venture capital type people to answer to, and our backers have been around for a long time and are just changing their investment style. Traditional VC is churn and burn (build it up, get market, sell it) but ours are long term growth investors - they specialize in building long running businesses focused on revenues years out and make their returns from operational success, not selling to a larger player like California style VC focuses on.

I find the highlighted thing hard/impossible to believe. They might not be leaning on you, but I'm assuming they own enough of the company to make your life difficult at minimum, bad at worse.

Maybe I worded that poorly. I meant that there are NO venture capital people to answer to. Not that the ones we have don't ask for answers. I mean we aren't VC funded, no VCs in site. Because we have no VCs, there are none to answer to at all.

Aww, well then you're either part owners yourself or employees, But I'm assuming there is still a CEO to answer to.

I'm not sure I follow the logic here. A CEO is not like a VC. And why would all staff be owners if there aren't VCs? Maybe I'm being unclear, but a VC is an extremely specific type of investor that normal companies do not use. Do you have VCs investing in your workplace that expect to build and sell the company off in just a couple of years? Assuming you don't, does that then make you a part owner of that company?

Well you're stuck on the VC thing - I was more talking about 'people to answer to' part. You have people to answer to, they just aren't VCs. That's true even if the people you're answering to is yourself.

This whole sub-topic came from:

@kelly said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@QuixoticJeremy @QuixoticJustin Maybe this needs to have its own thread, but how are you funding your tools? I'm always interested in working with new tools, but the world of FOSS is littered with abandonware.

Your answer brought in VCs, not his question. So getting back to his question - where does funding come from? If not from VCs, then where?

I'm also curious what tools @Kelly is talking about? Is he talking about you purchasing software to help you make your software? i.e. IDEs (though many are free) or is he talking about who's paying you to make Sodium, or another way to look at it, how are you surviving financially while making this? Which we already know the answer to that second part - you still have a full time day job. You're writing Sodium on your own time after hours. So other than hosting, I'm wondering what expenses you have? Considering the people involved, I'd be very surprised if the entire thing isn't being written in FOSS solutions to keep you out of any lock-in.

I was curious about their business model to keep the products moving forward when they're free and hosted. Those two are much harder to combine and be at least revenue neutral.

Things like this are typically either using Ads or selling data (or both) to earn revenue.

We've been talking about being ad supported from the beginning. @QuixoticJeremy in one of his posts from last week talked about how the space is left on the right hand side for ad placement. That's been the plan from day one.

QuixoticJustin

@kelly said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@quixoticjustin said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@quixoticjustin said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@quixoticjustin said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@kelly said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@QuixoticJeremy @QuixoticJustin Maybe this needs to have its own thread, but how are you funding your tools? I'm always interested in working with new tools, but the world of FOSS is littered with abandonware.

We are funded by a private equity group in Texas that invests in technology-related businesses, primarily. I doubt that we will be going anywhere, we have no venture capital type people to answer to, and our backers have been around for a long time and are just changing their investment style. Traditional VC is churn and burn (build it up, get market, sell it) but ours are long term growth investors - they specialize in building long running businesses focused on revenues years out and make their returns from operational success, not selling to a larger player like California style VC focuses on.

I find the highlighted thing hard/impossible to believe. They might not be leaning on you, but I'm assuming they own enough of the company to make your life difficult at minimum, bad at worse.

Maybe I worded that poorly. I meant that there are NO venture capital people to answer to. Not that the ones we have don't ask for answers. I mean we aren't VC funded, no VCs in site. Because we have no VCs, there are none to answer to at all.

Aww, well then you're either part owners yourself or employees, But I'm assuming there is still a CEO to answer to.

I'm not sure I follow the logic here. A CEO is not like a VC. And why would all staff be owners if there aren't VCs? Maybe I'm being unclear, but a VC is an extremely specific type of investor that normal companies do not use. Do you have VCs investing in your workplace that expect to build and sell the company off in just a couple of years? Assuming you don't, does that then make you a part owner of that company?

Well you're stuck on the VC thing - I was more talking about 'people to answer to' part. You have people to answer to, they just aren't VCs. That's true even if the people you're answering to is yourself.

This whole sub-topic came from:

@kelly said in What Are You Doing Right Now:

@QuixoticJeremy @QuixoticJustin Maybe this needs to have its own thread, but how are you funding your tools? I'm always interested in working with new tools, but the world of FOSS is littered with abandonware.

Your answer brought in VCs, not his question. So getting back to his question - where does funding come from? If not from VCs, then where?

I'm also curious what tools @Kelly is talking about? Is he talking about you purchasing software to help you make your software? i.e. IDEs (though many are free) or is he talking about who's paying you to make Sodium, or another way to look at it, how are you surviving financially while making this? Which we already know the answer to that second part - you still have a full time day job. You're writing Sodium on your own time after hours. So other than hosting, I'm wondering what expenses you have? Considering the people involved, I'd be very surprised if the entire thing isn't being written in FOSS solutions to keep you out of any lock-in.

I was curious about their business model to keep the products moving forward when they're free and hosted. Those two are much harder to combine and be at least revenue neutral.

Not as hard as you might think. Or harder than people think, those are the two realities Making software is an expensive endeavor, no way around that. But hosting is not as expensive as local deployments, for example. If you are just making free software and leaving end users to fend for themselves then local deployment software is very cheap, of course. But once you want to do things like get support or have ad revenue, those things get very hard. The cost of one part time deployment support person is many times larger than the cost of hosting, for example.

Hosting means supporting only one system, only one version, and when you update you know if it worked or not. You aren't dealing with lots of deployment scenarios that might go wrong down the road. You don't deal with an install ending up ten versions behind and needing to catch up. You don't deal with end users corrupting databases or trying to do weird things. Hosting brings a lot of cost benefits that might be overlooked.