Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud
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@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@NerdyDad said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
For some reason, I'm wondering if @Dashrender got some kind of kickback...
@Dashrender, did your pockets get a little padded? Hmmm...
What are you talking about? what? a kickback for posting about that on ML?
Um - NO I did not - I don't spam the shit out of ML like some other members around here, and now I'm being accoused of spamming this - WTF?
Hey hold on here a minute. I was just joking around with you. Not actually accusing you of anything. You just gave them a plug. That was it. Sorry for poking the wrong button.
If I wanted to accuse you of something. I would have actually brought evidence to support said accusations.
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@scottalanmiller said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
My understanding is that it is an Azure AD, not an AD, replacement at this point. Which I think is better for most SMBs, especially smaller ones and those that are more mobile. I'm not a fan of AD and GPO, they were good ideas 17 years ago, but lack a lot today. But Microsoft hasn't made great strides in replacing it yet (but are working on it with Azure AD.) Honestly at this point, I think that the Linux world has pulled ahead in desktop management.
I'm not sure how Linux has pulled ahead in desktop management - and explanation would be great. Please don't mention tools like puppet either, those are strap on things, not part of the base install.
I agree that MS has failed us in moving AD to a cloud based, LAN-less situation. AAD handle authentication, but doesn't bring the rest of the Active Directory 'things' along with it, like GPOs. instead you need yet another paid product like Intune.
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@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
I'm not sure how Linux has pulled ahead in desktop management - and explanation would be great. Please don't mention tools like puppet either, those are strap on things, not part of the base install.
They are built into my Linux desktop. Since GPO comes with Windows server and NOT Windows desktop, that's an add on to Windows, too. So Linux has things like Puppet built in and Windows does NOT have GPO built in.
So using your logic, Linux pulls even farther ahead than I was thinking.
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@scottalanmiller said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
I'm not sure how Linux has pulled ahead in desktop management - and explanation would be great. Please don't mention tools like puppet either, those are strap on things, not part of the base install.
They are built into my Linux desktop. Since GPO comes with Windows server and NOT Windows desktop, that's an add on to Windows, too. So Linux has things like Puppet built in and Windows does NOT have GPO built in.
So using your logic, Linux pulls even farther ahead than I was thinking.
I'm not disagreeing with you but Local Group Policies are built into the Windows Desktop. You can manage them via a script without having Active Directory setup.
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@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
I agree that MS has failed us in moving AD to a cloud based, LAN-less situation. AAD handle authentication, but doesn't bring the rest of the Active Directory 'things' along with it, like GPOs. instead you need yet another paid product like Intune.
Azure AD does provide GPO functionality. but, of course, they can't call it GPO because it's not actually AD and they've tied the names together. So if Azure AD offers GPU, then lots of other things do too. So they got caught by their naming tricks. But the functionality of GPO is available from Azure AD.
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@coliver said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@scottalanmiller said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
I'm not sure how Linux has pulled ahead in desktop management - and explanation would be great. Please don't mention tools like puppet either, those are strap on things, not part of the base install.
They are built into my Linux desktop. Since GPO comes with Windows server and NOT Windows desktop, that's an add on to Windows, too. So Linux has things like Puppet built in and Windows does NOT have GPO built in.
So using your logic, Linux pulls even farther ahead than I was thinking.
I'm not disagreeing with you but Local Group Policies are built into the Windows Desktop. You can manage them via a script without having Active Directory setup.
Sure, and I point that out all of the time. But they aren't as advanced as what Linux has built in, with tools like Salt.
Of course "Linux" is a bad way to talk about it. It's the main Linux distros like RHEL, Fedora, Suse and Ubuntu. But they all have tools like that included.
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A key difference is that the enterprise Linux offerings have the infrastructure included, you don't have to build your own or buy an additional Windows server to have it work. You can do it all from your desktop if you want. And all with included tools and no scripting.
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@scottalanmiller said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
I'm not sure how Linux has pulled ahead in desktop management - and explanation would be great. Please don't mention tools like puppet either, those are strap on things, not part of the base install.
They are built into my Linux desktop. Since GPO comes with Windows server and NOT Windows desktop, that's an add on to Windows, too. So Linux has things like Puppet built in and Windows does NOT have GPO built in.
So using your logic, Linux pulls even farther ahead than I was thinking.
What? GPO is mostly definitely something built into the Pro version of the desktop. Sure it's managed from files on the server, but you don't have to install anything on the workstations to make them understand it and use it - you simply follow the process of joining the workstation to the domain.
Assuming your flavor of Linux has Puppet baked in, OK you get a tie there, perhaps some type of edge, but I can't saw how much or how little.
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@scottalanmiller said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
I agree that MS has failed us in moving AD to a cloud based, LAN-less situation. AAD handle authentication, but doesn't bring the rest of the Active Directory 'things' along with it, like GPOs. instead you need yet another paid product like Intune.
Azure AD does provide GPO functionality. but, of course, they can't call it GPO because it's not actually AD and they've tied the names together. So if Azure AD offers GPU, then lots of other things do too. So they got caught by their naming tricks. But the functionality of GPO is available from Azure AD.
OK this sound vaguely familiar, like it was an add-on/enhancement after I first took a look at it.
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@scottalanmiller said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
A key difference is that the enterprise Linux offerings have the infrastructure included, you don't have to build your own or buy an additional Windows server to have it work. You can do it all from your desktop if you want. And all with included tools and no scripting.
How do you get unified authentication in Linux? Another huge difference between Linux and Windows, is Linux servers are only different from workstations mostly because of the packages differences, at least from my POV.
Windows would be the same if not for license restrictions! Linux having no license restrictions, basically allows it to do everything in every version however they want. Windows can't ONLY because of licensing limitations.
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@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@scottalanmiller said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
I agree that MS has failed us in moving AD to a cloud based, LAN-less situation. AAD handle authentication, but doesn't bring the rest of the Active Directory 'things' along with it, like GPOs. instead you need yet another paid product like Intune.
Azure AD does provide GPO functionality. but, of course, they can't call it GPO because it's not actually AD and they've tied the names together. So if Azure AD offers GPU, then lots of other things do too. So they got caught by their naming tricks. But the functionality of GPO is available from Azure AD.
OK this sound vaguely familiar, like it was an add-on/enhancement after I first took a look at it.
It's the second tier. And was not there in the initial release.
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@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@scottalanmiller said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
I'm not sure how Linux has pulled ahead in desktop management - and explanation would be great. Please don't mention tools like puppet either, those are strap on things, not part of the base install.
They are built into my Linux desktop. Since GPO comes with Windows server and NOT Windows desktop, that's an add on to Windows, too. So Linux has things like Puppet built in and Windows does NOT have GPO built in.
So using your logic, Linux pulls even farther ahead than I was thinking.
What? GPO is mostly definitely something built into the Pro version of the desktop. Sure it's managed from files on the server, but you don't have to install anything on the workstations to make them understand it and use it - you simply follow the process of joining the workstation to the domain.
Right, so you have the client which is useless on its own. You have to buy another product to have it work. So not included.
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@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
Assuming your flavor of Linux has Puppet baked in, OK you get a tie there, perhaps some type of edge, but I can't saw how much or how little.
Not a tie. No need for anything extra. No need for a different, extra server product to make it work.
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@scottalanmiller said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@scottalanmiller said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
I'm not sure how Linux has pulled ahead in desktop management - and explanation would be great. Please don't mention tools like puppet either, those are strap on things, not part of the base install.
They are built into my Linux desktop. Since GPO comes with Windows server and NOT Windows desktop, that's an add on to Windows, too. So Linux has things like Puppet built in and Windows does NOT have GPO built in.
So using your logic, Linux pulls even farther ahead than I was thinking.
What? GPO is mostly definitely something built into the Pro version of the desktop. Sure it's managed from files on the server, but you don't have to install anything on the workstations to make them understand it and use it - you simply follow the process of joining the workstation to the domain.
Right, so you have the client which is useless on its own. You have to buy another product to have it work. So not included.
Again, licensing. End of Line.
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@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
How do you get unified authentication in Linux? Another huge difference between Linux and Windows...
In any of lots of ways. AD, LDAP, NIS, NIS+, Centrify, any third party product that has a PAM module, Azure AD, JumpCloud, Scripts, CM systems, etc. Basically all the ways you can on Windows, and several more.
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@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
Windows would be the same if not for license restrictions! Linux having no license restrictions, basically allows it to do everything in every version however they want. Windows can't ONLY because of licensing limitations.
No, more than that. The server side component of AD and GPO is not there in the client, regardless of license. So the difference remains, one is included, one is not.
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Linux, with add ons, can use GPO as well. Not just as a server (which is built in) but as a client.
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@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
How do you get unified authentication in Linux?
IIRC Active Directory was in response to *nix based distributions having this ability a decade prior.
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@coliver said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
How do you get unified authentication in Linux?
IIRC Active Directory was in response to *nix based distributions having this ability a decade prior.
That's correct. Not just as a general concept, as things like NIS are quite old. Sun released NIS in the early 1980. It was replaced with NIS+ in 1992. LDAP was already popular on Linux by the late 1990s. Even kerberos was already in use on Linux at that time. By the time that Windows did AD in 2000, they were explaining it in terms of Linux to make people understand how it worked. It wasn't just that it was "like" what UNIX had, but that it was LDAP and Kerberos right from the UNIX world, just a Windows version of those exact services.
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@scottalanmiller said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@coliver said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
@Dashrender said in Alternative to Azure AD - JumpCloud:
How do you get unified authentication in Linux?
IIRC Active Directory was in response to *nix based distributions having this ability a decade prior.
That's correct. Not just as a general concept, as things like NIS are quite old. Sun released NIS in the early 1980. It was replaced with NIS+ in 1992. LDAP was already popular on Linux by the late 1990s. Even kerberos was already in use on Linux at that time. By the time that Windows did AD in 2000, they were explaining it in terms of Linux to make people understand how it worked. It wasn't just that it was "like" what UNIX had, but that it was LDAP and Kerberos right from the UNIX world, just a Windows version of those exact services.
Good to know I have some of my IT history correct. I first learned LDAP on some old Gentoo boxes that my father picked up from the dump.
