What Are You Doing Right Now
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@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender The server is on it's way out anyway so it solves two problems but I'm really put out.
Were you actually in that meeting, or did just you just happen to hear it as you walked by?
My desk is directly next to their office so I hear everything
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender The server is on it's way out anyway so it solves two problems but I'm really put out.
Were you actually in that meeting, or did just you just happen to hear it as you walked by?
My desk is directly next to their office so I hear everything
Perhaps you should mention it to them... "By the way, I heard you talking about raid 5..." and then explain to them why it's a bad idea?
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
Assuming they are buying HDDs, you need to show them the math that shows why RAID 5 is dead in that space and that they need to look at RAID 6 or RAID 10.
I really want to avoid parity if this is going to be that big of a percentage of our production servers
Really, the thing that matters is IOPs - if the IOP requirement is met by RAID 6, then there shouldn't be an issue. Of course, don't forget to consider IOP in a failed state.
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We are buying two servers and not clustering them so we essentially lose the resources of the second server as it's not being used for anything else.
Why would you assume you need/want to cluster them? If you don't have licensing for that, that is yet another expense to make that work.
Also, what Hypervisor are they looking at? Hyper-V would be free in this case, but if they are a VMWare shop, then clustering is even more expense.
This is a 100% Hyper-V shop.
Isn't one of the strenghts of virtualization that you can allocate resources in a way where wasted resources are at the very least greatly reduced? An almost completely wasted server is the opposite of what we are trying to do in the modern world especially when their reasoning is hardware redundancy. You can have hardware redundancy with clustering and retain all of your resources. Seems like a no brainer to me.
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@dashrender If they aren't considering all of this I highly doubt they have calculated iops too. I don't get triggered a lot but I feel like we're setting ourselves up to fail.
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We are buying two servers and not clustering them so we essentially lose the resources of the second server as it's not being used for anything else.
Why would you assume you need/want to cluster them? If you don't have licensing for that, that is yet another expense to make that work.
Also, what Hypervisor are they looking at? Hyper-V would be free in this case, but if they are a VMWare shop, then clustering is even more expense.
This is a 100% Hyper-V shop.
Isn't one of the strenghts of virtualization that you can allocate resources in a way where wasted resources are at the very least greatly reduced? An almost completely wasted server is the opposite of what we are trying to do in the modern world especially when their reasoning is hardware redundancy. You can have hardware redundancy with clustering and retain all of your resources. Seems like a no brainer to me.
I think you are thinking of cloud computing. Hyper-V might be able to do that, but again, you still need licensing that supports the moving of Windows Based VMs between hosts. And that's not how many SMBs are.
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@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dafyre said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender The server is on it's way out anyway so it solves two problems but I'm really put out.
Were you actually in that meeting, or did just you just happen to hear it as you walked by?
My desk is directly next to their office so I hear everything
Perhaps you should mention it to them... "By the way, I heard you talking about raid 5..." and then explain to them why it's a bad idea?
Government, it being a bad idea was probably the point.
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We are buying two servers and not clustering them so we essentially lose the resources of the second server as it's not being used for anything else.
Why would you assume you need/want to cluster them? If you don't have licensing for that, that is yet another expense to make that work.
Also, what Hypervisor are they looking at? Hyper-V would be free in this case, but if they are a VMWare shop, then clustering is even more expense.
This is a 100% Hyper-V shop.
Isn't one of the strenghts of virtualization that you can allocate resources in a way where wasted resources are at the very least greatly reduced? An almost completely wasted server is the opposite of what we are trying to do in the modern world especially when their reasoning is hardware redundancy. You can have hardware redundancy with clustering and retain all of your resources. Seems like a no brainer to me.
The goal of virtualization is abstraction.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We are buying two servers and not clustering them so we essentially lose the resources of the second server as it's not being used for anything else.
Why would you assume you need/want to cluster them? If you don't have licensing for that, that is yet another expense to make that work.
Also, what Hypervisor are they looking at? Hyper-V would be free in this case, but if they are a VMWare shop, then clustering is even more expense.
This is a 100% Hyper-V shop.
Isn't one of the strenghts of virtualization that you can allocate resources in a way where wasted resources are at the very least greatly reduced? An almost completely wasted server is the opposite of what we are trying to do in the modern world especially when their reasoning is hardware redundancy. You can have hardware redundancy with clustering and retain all of your resources. Seems like a no brainer to me.
The goal of virtualization is abstraction.
With that comes the ability to allocate resources in a way that is much more cost effective as well though correct?
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dashrender If they aren't considering all of this I highly doubt they have calculated iops too. I don't get triggered a lot but I feel like we're setting ourselves up to fail.
Your company definitely is. You should mention these things.
They need to take a step back and do something like - run DPACK for a few weeks, use that information to build the servers that will be in the summer, and they will probably be overkill for the DAG situation.
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dashrender If they aren't considering all of this I highly doubt they have calculated iops too. I don't get triggered a lot but I feel like we're setting ourselves up to fail.
Your company definitely is. You should mention these things.
They need to take a step back and do something like - run DPACK for a few weeks, use that information to build the servers that will be in the summer, and they will probably be overkill for the DAG situation.
I don't know how these guys are going to react to me involving myself in this process but I'd rather deal with social consequences than IT consequences
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
We are buying two servers and not clustering them so we essentially lose the resources of the second server as it's not being used for anything else.
Why would you assume you need/want to cluster them? If you don't have licensing for that, that is yet another expense to make that work.
Also, what Hypervisor are they looking at? Hyper-V would be free in this case, but if they are a VMWare shop, then clustering is even more expense.
This is a 100% Hyper-V shop.
Isn't one of the strenghts of virtualization that you can allocate resources in a way where wasted resources are at the very least greatly reduced? An almost completely wasted server is the opposite of what we are trying to do in the modern world especially when their reasoning is hardware redundancy. You can have hardware redundancy with clustering and retain all of your resources. Seems like a no brainer to me.
The goal of virtualization is abstraction.
With that comes the ability to allocate resources in a way that is much more cost effective as well though correct?
In some cases, not in others.
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dashrender If they aren't considering all of this I highly doubt they have calculated iops too. I don't get triggered a lot but I feel like we're setting ourselves up to fail.
Your company definitely is. You should mention these things.
They need to take a step back and do something like - run DPACK for a few weeks, use that information to build the servers that will be in the summer, and they will probably be overkill for the DAG situation.
I don't know how these guys are going to react to me involving myself in this process but I'd rather deal with social consequences than IT consequences
That's a terrible way to think of it. IT does not override businesses processes.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dashrender If they aren't considering all of this I highly doubt they have calculated iops too. I don't get triggered a lot but I feel like we're setting ourselves up to fail.
Your company definitely is. You should mention these things.
They need to take a step back and do something like - run DPACK for a few weeks, use that information to build the servers that will be in the summer, and they will probably be overkill for the DAG situation.
I don't know how these guys are going to react to me involving myself in this process but I'd rather deal with social consequences than IT consequences
That's a terrible way to think of it. IT does not override businesses processes.
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure how I'm overriding a business practice.
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dashrender If they aren't considering all of this I highly doubt they have calculated iops too. I don't get triggered a lot but I feel like we're setting ourselves up to fail.
Your company definitely is. You should mention these things.
They need to take a step back and do something like - run DPACK for a few weeks, use that information to build the servers that will be in the summer, and they will probably be overkill for the DAG situation.
I don't know how these guys are going to react to me involving myself in this process but I'd rather deal with social consequences than IT consequences
That's a terrible way to think of it. IT does not override businesses processes.
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure how I'm overriding a business practice.
At this point he would be mentioning better practices to the people that make the decisions at a bare minimum.
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@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dashrender If they aren't considering all of this I highly doubt they have calculated iops too. I don't get triggered a lot but I feel like we're setting ourselves up to fail.
Your company definitely is. You should mention these things.
They need to take a step back and do something like - run DPACK for a few weeks, use that information to build the servers that will be in the summer, and they will probably be overkill for the DAG situation.
I don't know how these guys are going to react to me involving myself in this process but I'd rather deal with social consequences than IT consequences
That's a terrible way to think of it. IT does not override businesses processes.
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure how I'm overriding a business practice.
You're injecting personal bias into a management decision. That's kind of the definition of overriding business practices.
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Thinking "What the hell was I doing / about to do................"
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@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dashrender If they aren't considering all of this I highly doubt they have calculated iops too. I don't get triggered a lot but I feel like we're setting ourselves up to fail.
Your company definitely is. You should mention these things.
They need to take a step back and do something like - run DPACK for a few weeks, use that information to build the servers that will be in the summer, and they will probably be overkill for the DAG situation.
I don't know how these guys are going to react to me involving myself in this process but I'd rather deal with social consequences than IT consequences
That's a terrible way to think of it. IT does not override businesses processes.
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure how I'm overriding a business practice.
You're injecting personal bias into a management decision. That's kind of the definition of overriding business practices.
From my own knowledge base, which could be wrong (and if it is please tell me), what I would be suggesting would be a lot more in line with best practices wouldn't it? I guess what I'm asking is what is my responsibility in this situation? Am I doing what is best for the company by explaining this to them in a very respectful and patient manner or should I ignore it because I was not invited into the meeting? Is the social more important?
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Sunny and cold Thursday morning it's 20°F sitting behind traffic
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@coliver said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@wirestyle22 said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@dashrender If they aren't considering all of this I highly doubt they have calculated iops too. I don't get triggered a lot but I feel like we're setting ourselves up to fail.
Your company definitely is. You should mention these things.
They need to take a step back and do something like - run DPACK for a few weeks, use that information to build the servers that will be in the summer, and they will probably be overkill for the DAG situation.
I don't know how these guys are going to react to me involving myself in this process but I'd rather deal with social consequences than IT consequences
That's a terrible way to think of it. IT does not override businesses processes.
Can you elaborate? I'm not sure how I'm overriding a business practice.
You're injecting personal bias into a management decision. That's kind of the definition of overriding business practices.
Injecting personal bias or suggesting things closer to industry best practices?
I could see Personal Bias if it was a Raid 6 vs Raid 10... But as has become the norm around here... If it's not SSDs, RAID 5 really is not a good suggestion any more.
