old MSP wants to know what they did wrong
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@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
That's the "doesn't know what a pizza box" problem that I was referring to. 1U servers are not pizza boxes, they are not square. THat's a new thing that people who don't know Sparcstations, but have overheard people use the term, mistakenly call them now. A 1U should never be called a pizza box.
This seems like IT elitism for the sake of elitism. Sure the original pizzabox was the Sparcstation - the second gen pizzabox was a 1U rackmount server.
If that was the intention, then that would be fine. But a repeated accidental misuse of a term is not the same thing at all. Being knowledgeable and correct is never elitism. Calling a 1U a pizzabox is just an alternative fact. People heard the term, didn't understand it and wanted to sound cool and it got repeated. Exactly the same as blade servers. Lots of people call 1U servers that, too. And it is always wrong. People know one thing and want to use buzz words so apply them to anything that they see. Cloud, virtual, etc.
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
That's the "doesn't know what a pizza box" problem that I was referring to. 1U servers are not pizza boxes, they are not square. THat's a new thing that people who don't know Sparcstations, but have overheard people use the term, mistakenly call them now. A 1U should never be called a pizza box.
This seems like IT elitism for the sake of elitism. Sure the original pizzabox was the Sparcstation - the second gen pizzabox was a 1U rackmount server.
If that was the intention, then that would be fine.
how do you know it wasn't the intention? I'd never seen a Sparcstation until I saw what were already ancient pictures of them, like the one above.
The first time I heard of a pizzabox was in a datacenter talking about IBM 1U servers. Right or wrong, the term has two meanings today.
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@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
The first time I heard of a pizzabox was in a datacenter talking about IBM 1U servers. Right or wrong, the term has two meanings today.
Just like cloud has two meanings, and blades do. We work in IT, wrong is wrong. There isn't room for sloppy. Just using terms mistakenly doesn't make it okay.
You can say it has two meanings, but where does thinking like that stop? Soon you can say anything and we have no terminology for our field. Just because lots of people repeat something incorrectly doesn't make it okay nor does it make it a term for that thing.
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@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
how do you know it wasn't the intention?
I've heard it misused directly many times where it was obvious someone was repeating something that they didn't understand. Can I know that all people everywhere heard the term through the grapevine in that way? No. Is it a very, very safe assumption? I think so.
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
how do you know it wasn't the intention?
I've heard it misused directly many times where it was obvious someone was repeating something that they didn't understand. Can I know that all people everywhere heard the term through the grapevine in that way? No. Is it a very, very safe assumption? I think so.
so when those people were misusing it - did they mean 1u rackmount box? or were they using it to just talk about a server, or a PC or some other random piece of gear?
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@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
The first time I heard of a pizzabox was in a datacenter talking about IBM 1U servers.
And? Most people here cloud computing and are told it just means "someone else's computer", which isn't even slightly what it means. Tons and tons of people are told that 1U servers are blades because the person speaking doesn't even know that actual blades exist, that doesn't make it right. My point above is that tons of people call 1U servers pizza boxes. I never disputed that it is used that way, my point was that it was wrong because they were taking a term that means something (a style of box that looks like the ones pictures, nothing like a 1U) and applying it just like blade or cloud, to whatever they had in front of them instead of what the term means. If you had a machine that was formed like those but wasn't a sparcstation and used the term intentionally to imply it was of the same factor, yes, that would be valid. Just repeating a misused term or trying to use something without knowing what it is is just wrong, however.
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@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
how do you know it wasn't the intention?
I've heard it misused directly many times where it was obvious someone was repeating something that they didn't understand. Can I know that all people everywhere heard the term through the grapevine in that way? No. Is it a very, very safe assumption? I think so.
so when those people were misusing it - did they mean 1u rackmount box? or were they using it to just talk about a server, or a PC or some other random piece of gear?
The standard misuse is the same standard misuse of blade - 1u rackmounts. Because they are common and people assume that there must be nicknames for them so they assume anything that they hear refers to that. Your example from your datacenter is exactly the case I have talked about for years and years. It's not a "general misuse", it's this specific case of calling 1U servers terms reserved for other machines.
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
how do you know it wasn't the intention?
I've heard it misused directly many times where it was obvious someone was repeating something that they didn't understand. Can I know that all people everywhere heard the term through the grapevine in that way? No. Is it a very, very safe assumption? I think so.
so when those people were misusing it - did they mean 1u rackmount box? or were they using it to just talk about a server, or a PC or some other random piece of gear?
The standard misuse is the same standard misuse of blade - 1u rackmounts. Because they are common and people assume that there must be nicknames for them so they assume anything that they hear refers to that. Your example from your datacenter is exactly the case I have talked about for years and years. It's not a "general misuse", it's this specific case of calling 1U servers terms reserved for other machines.
Or my reference to x86 on ARM, it's clearly wrong, but those who don't know this would just continue to spread misinformation.
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@travisdh1 said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
how do you know it wasn't the intention?
I've heard it misused directly many times where it was obvious someone was repeating something that they didn't understand. Can I know that all people everywhere heard the term through the grapevine in that way? No. Is it a very, very safe assumption? I think so.
so when those people were misusing it - did they mean 1u rackmount box? or were they using it to just talk about a server, or a PC or some other random piece of gear?
The standard misuse is the same standard misuse of blade - 1u rackmounts. Because they are common and people assume that there must be nicknames for them so they assume anything that they hear refers to that. Your example from your datacenter is exactly the case I have talked about for years and years. It's not a "general misuse", it's this specific case of calling 1U servers terms reserved for other machines.
Or my reference to x86 on ARM, it's clearly wrong, but those who don't know this would just continue to spread misinformation.
I almost mentioned that
Or the common one, of referring to AMD64 as IA64 even though both are competing technologies, rather than two of the same one.
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People use incorrect terms in almost every aspect of IT all the time, either due to ignorance or whatever. You will have that.
But in my opinion, calling a 1u server a pizza box, now that the original meaning is no longer relevant today, and still makes sense because its so similar, is fine. Most people use it correctly in that aspect, but you will always have people who just straight up call something completely incorrect.
Just like how everyone calls a cable internet box a "modem", even though it isn't... Who cares, we all know what they mean. If someone calls their food processor a modem, im not going to protest that we should no longer call cable boxes a cable modem.
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
The first time I heard of a pizzabox was in a datacenter talking about IBM 1U servers. Right or wrong, the term has two meanings today.
Just like cloud has two meanings, and blades do. We work in IT, wrong is wrong. There isn't room for sloppy. Just using terms mistakenly doesn't make it okay.
You can say it has two meanings, but where does thinking like that stop? Soon you can say anything and we have no terminology for our field. Just because lots of people repeat something incorrectly doesn't make it okay nor does it make it a term for that thing.
I do get your point and you are right, but it doesn't have to be so black and white.
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@Tim_G said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
The first time I heard of a pizzabox was in a datacenter talking about IBM 1U servers. Right or wrong, the term has two meanings today.
Just like cloud has two meanings, and blades do. We work in IT, wrong is wrong. There isn't room for sloppy. Just using terms mistakenly doesn't make it okay.
You can say it has two meanings, but where does thinking like that stop? Soon you can say anything and we have no terminology for our field. Just because lots of people repeat something incorrectly doesn't make it okay nor does it make it a term for that thing.
I do get your point and you are right, but it doesn't have to be so black and white.
Problem is, the part of the industry that really uses the term says "have you worked on a pizza box", asking people if they have historical knowledge of RISC desktops and they answer "of course" because... they've seen a computer.
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Tim_G said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
The first time I heard of a pizzabox was in a datacenter talking about IBM 1U servers. Right or wrong, the term has two meanings today.
Just like cloud has two meanings, and blades do. We work in IT, wrong is wrong. There isn't room for sloppy. Just using terms mistakenly doesn't make it okay.
You can say it has two meanings, but where does thinking like that stop? Soon you can say anything and we have no terminology for our field. Just because lots of people repeat something incorrectly doesn't make it okay nor does it make it a term for that thing.
I do get your point and you are right, but it doesn't have to be so black and white.
Problem is, the part of the industry that really uses the term says "have you worked on a pizza box", asking people if they have historical knowledge of RISC desktops and they answer "of course" because... they've seen a computer.
Then they need to be less vague in their questioning. There's a bit of an assumption there, especially when it's common knowledge that the term is widely misused with regard to its original context. If they get a bad response, they should have asked a better question.
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@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
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@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
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@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Tim_G said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
The first time I heard of a pizzabox was in a datacenter talking about IBM 1U servers. Right or wrong, the term has two meanings today.
Just like cloud has two meanings, and blades do. We work in IT, wrong is wrong. There isn't room for sloppy. Just using terms mistakenly doesn't make it okay.
You can say it has two meanings, but where does thinking like that stop? Soon you can say anything and we have no terminology for our field. Just because lots of people repeat something incorrectly doesn't make it okay nor does it make it a term for that thing.
I do get your point and you are right, but it doesn't have to be so black and white.
Problem is, the part of the industry that really uses the term says "have you worked on a pizza box", asking people if they have historical knowledge of RISC desktops and they answer "of course" because... they've seen a computer.
Then they need to be less vague in their questioning. There's a bit of an assumption there, especially when it's common knowledge that the term is widely misused with regard to its original context. If they get a bad response, they should have asked a better question.
I was thinking exactly this. While Scott claims that it's still current, the use of 25 year old computers is definitely not what I would call current (this assumes they are using a 25 year old computer and that Sparc hasn't updated them with current stuff). I know people who are still programming and managing IBM mainframes apps that are 20+ years old on emulators that are 10+, I certainly wouldn't call them current.
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@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol
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@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol
And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...
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@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@art_of_shred said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
I'd wager a guess that it's the 25 year old machine. We're talking about manufacturing here...
So, does the use of a 25 year old CAT scan machine mean they are using current equipment? lol
And to think that you just got chewed out for wanting to look into details of Server 2003...
Holy shit, you're right LOL
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@Dashrender said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@scottalanmiller said in old MSP wants to know what they did wrong:
@hobbit666 I used to manage them regularly. I managed actual pizza boxes in the early 1990s in academia (yes, mostly CAD stuff) and later around 2000 in manufacturing. I know someone in California still using the same pizzaboxes that I had for manufacturing. I know both in manufacturing and in finance these are still in use today, so the term remains not just relevant, but current. And I believe that NTG has one for the museum as well.
Are they using an updated version, or a 25+ year old machine?
Same 25+ old machine.
