Is it right or is it theft/fraud?
-
This is definitely a moral gray area. Personally, I feel like it would depend on the situation. I've done sales/marketing calls for products I knew I had no power to work towards buying or had any influence towards getting purchased. My thought process was that if I listen to their spiel, get a free t-shirt or whatever, and don't buy now, there's no guarantee I won't buy from them for a different reason, maybe in a different position, in the future. Events, dinners, etc are more about establishing report with the potential customer. I use opportunities like that to get a feel for their sales process and the like. If I like how things sound, and I get a good feel from the people, that tells me a lot, and I've had opportunities where I was treated well in the past and didn't do anything with that product/company at the time, but in later positions, I went back to them and we did business. So do I think it's personally wrong? Not inherently. It really depends on the motivation behind it. For me, I view it as a networking opportunity, and that is rarely a bad investment.
-
There is no such thing as a free lunch. If they take you out to eat you have to listen to their spiel and they feel like they have the right to bombard you with emails and calls because they took you out to dinner or whatever.
I don't like sales people and I don't want them to feel like I ever like them or owe them anything. I'll spend the $10 to go get myself lunch and not feel any obligation to the scum of the earth.
-
@NerdyDad said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
If you knew that you probably aren't going to go with a vendor that is sponsoring an exclusive event, would you go to said event?
Well no, but mostly because I feel badly. It's part of their marketing budget, though, and there is nothing unethical about going anymore than accepting a brochure from them or watching an ad on television. They pay for a ton of marketing to people who would never consider the product, that is their decision. As long as you are not lying and saying that you are considering them when you are not, no reason not to accept.
-
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
-
@Dashrender said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
My company has an actual policy on this. Basically the office manager gets to decide if you can partake.
That's very common, lots of companies have policies on it, so many, in fact, that I wonder how often they can even do the things like this.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
-
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
Sure, but it doesn't apply to banking in general. Just a specific company or type. Banking, in general, has no such limitations.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
Sure, but it doesn't apply to banking in general. Just a specific company or type. Banking, in general, has no such limitations.
-
I've definitely worked in banks that wouldn't even allow vendors to buy you lunch. But that's an internal policy, not a general banking one.
-
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
Sure, but it doesn't apply to banking in general. Just a specific company or type. Banking, in general, has no such limitations.
Exactly, it's an FDIC rule, which doesn't apply to the majority of banking. Only certain types of banks are part of the FDIC in the US.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
Sure, but it doesn't apply to banking in general. Just a specific company or type. Banking, in general, has no such limitations.
Exactly, it's an FDIC rule, which doesn't apply to the majority of banking. Only certain types of banks are part of the FDIC in the US.
ah ok.
-
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
Sure, but it doesn't apply to banking in general. Just a specific company or type. Banking, in general, has no such limitations.
Exactly, it's an FDIC rule, which doesn't apply to the majority of banking. Only certain types of banks are part of the FDIC in the US.
ah ok.
Investment banking, has almost no rules. It's the wild west. -
- Depends on which teams are playing at the game they're offering.
- Do it anyways. As explained earlier, it's set aside in their marketing budget, so you shouldn't have any moral qualms about it.
- For real though, who is playing?
-
What's funny is that for me, going to a sporting event or a movie is a punishment, not a reward. Making me sit through a sporting event had better come with a pretty big alcohol budget.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
What's funny is that for me, going to a sporting event or a movie is a punishment, not a reward. Making me sit through a sporting event had better come with a pretty big alcohol budget.
I've been to a few with a friend who worked for a big time insurance company when they didn't have any clients to take, and we were always in box seats with an open bar.
One time, as part of a new promotion package from STAPLES Center, my friend and I got to sit in between the benches during a Kings game. It was so awesome.
-
@ChrisL said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
What's funny is that for me, going to a sporting event or a movie is a punishment, not a reward. Making me sit through a sporting event had better come with a pretty big alcohol budget.
I've been to a few with a friend who worked for a big time insurance company when they didn't have any clients to take, and we were always in box seats with an open bar.
One time, as part of a new promotion package from STAPLES Center, my friend and I got to sit in between the benches during a Kings game. It was so awesome.
I used to get tickets to see the Rochester Red Wings play when I was a hotel manager and the Rochester Amercs when I was a restaurant manager. Really good seats, too. But wasn't into sports then either
-
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
Sure, but it doesn't apply to banking in general. Just a specific company or type. Banking, in general, has no such limitations.
Exactly, it's an FDIC rule, which doesn't apply to the majority of banking. Only certain types of banks are part of the FDIC in the US.
ah ok.
Investment banking, has almost no rules. It's the wild west. -
If the vendor is going to be at the event then I think it's fine. It's about building a rapport with them, talking business, and doing it in a pleasant environment. I have no concerns about going to these kinds of events.
If they're not going to be at the event, or aren't going to talk to you there, then it is just giving you free tickets and I'd consider that a bribe and wouldn't go. Some of my colleagues do and I think it's disgusting - especially when they go during work hours.
The normal format for the events I go to is you have to sit through a few boring presentations in the morning, then have lunch whilst being hassled by a salesmen, then do something interesting and fun in the afternoon. If it's during work time I only go if I think my employer can get something out of it because I don't believe in getting paid to have fun. There can be value in creating a good rapport with a salesman at these events as it can help you negotiate better pricing if you do ever buy.
Also, these events are often great places to network with your industry peers. There's usually several of the vendor's existing customers at the event and I always try and talk to them privately and find out what they think of the vendor. It's a great way to get references.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
Sure, but it doesn't apply to banking in general. Just a specific company or type. Banking, in general, has no such limitations.
Exactly, it's an FDIC rule, which doesn't apply to the majority of banking. Only certain types of banks are part of the FDIC in the US.
also, one of the exceptions to the rules are:
(b) Acceptance of meals, refreshments, entertainment, accommodations or travel arrangements, all of reasonable value, in the course of a meeting or other occasion, the purpose of which is to hold bona fide business discussions or to foster better business relations, provided that the expense would be paid for by the bank as a reasonable business expense if not paid for by another party (the bank may establish a specific dollar limit for such an occasion);
Pretty much anything could be held under this exception...
-
@NerdyDad As long as you are not misleading the vendor on your interest in their product, then there is no moral ambiguity at all. It is simply their marketing trying to convince you to change your mind.
