Why is VMWare considered so often
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@DustinB3403 said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@olivier How does the AMANDA backup appliance do this currently?
It's agentless is it not, and provides a full File Level backup.
It's agentless, but it works over network shares. Not very good in general, IMHO.
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@DustinB3403 said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@scottalanmiller But isn't that performed with an agent into each VM?
No, Veeam is purely agentless. That's their thing. Everything is handled through the hypervisor's snapshot mechanism. Hence why they have no means of working with ESXi Free. No one is less associated with agents than Veeam.
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@Breffni-Potter
- Do you see the big red button? Just click on the link just 10px on top, you know, the one with "More documentation? Go read it here"
- The point is we are mainly targeting XenServer users. Why? Works out-of-the-box with them, market around 100k installs. Do you really think a company like ours can compete directly with VMWare or Microsoft? This is a niche strategy, the only solution to start on the market without raising 100M$ on the first round. I admit this is more a business reason than anything else, so it's possible it only makes sense after having the explanations.
- Fair point and that's why we are designing a new UI. Especially on the infrastructure size, the goal is now to provide something scalable for our customers from small to huge VMs number (approx from 1 to 5000 VMs)
- Do you see the big red button? Just click on the link just 10px on top, you know, the one with "More documentation? Go read it here"
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@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
This assumes you are a Xen Server believer. Why would I use Xen over the other 2 choices, yes you are offering a management tool for Xen but sell to me the benefits of XenServer.
Why else would you be on a XenServer tooling site? Makes no sense to sell the only reason that someone would be there.
That's like having a Chevy dealer that needs to explain the benefits of driving. realistically, everyone who comes in the door already knows why cars are nice.
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@scottalanmiller said
That's like having a Chevy dealer that needs to explain the benefits of driving. realistically, everyone who comes in the door already knows why cars are nice.
No. You are not a Chevy dealer, you are a chevy accessories dealer.
If most people are driving Fords or BMWs, is it not in your interest to hype up the chevy to begin with?
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@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@scottalanmiller said
That's like having a Chevy dealer that needs to explain the benefits of driving. realistically, everyone who comes in the door already knows why cars are nice.
No. You are not a Chevy dealer, you are a chevy accessories dealer.
If most people are driving Fords or BMWs, is it not in your interest to hype up the chevy to begin with?
You're right, you are a chevy accessories dealer. But if you own a chevy, and you really want those parts you wouldn't go to a BMW dealership for them or even a BMW Accessories dealer.
You know what you have, and you know what it can do. You just want add-ons. XO offers this.
You have the option to buy the accessory from this accessories dealer, or build it your self. So that's a huge item with people already using XenServer.
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@olivier said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@Breffni-Potter
- Do you see the big red button? Just click on the link just 10px on top, you know, the one with "More documentation? Go read it here"
Where is the big red button? I must be blind.
@olivier said
- The point is we are mainly targeting XenServer users. Why? Works out-of-the-box with them, market around 100k installs. Do you really think a company like ours can compete directly with VMWare or Microsoft?
Is the point to compete? Or is the point to say "here's the alternative, try this out, we think it's cool we endorse it"
the only solution to start on the market without raising 100M$ on the first round
But what happens when your pool of customers stagnates? Surely that pool of 100k installs needs to get bigger.
- Do you see the big red button? Just click on the link just 10px on top, you know, the one with "More documentation? Go read it here"
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@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@scottalanmiller said
That's like having a Chevy dealer that needs to explain the benefits of driving. realistically, everyone who comes in the door already knows why cars are nice.
No. You are not a Chevy dealer, you are a chevy accessories dealer.
If most people are driving Fords or BMWs, is it not in your interest to hype up the chevy to begin with?
No, because Ford people are not driving to a Chevy shop to look at parts. It's just not realistic. I don't go to a store for something that I don't want hoping that they will convince me to change everything anyway.
Have you ever heard of anyone who goes into a Chevy parts store even though they drove a Ford... just, you know, randomly. And THEN someone talked them into selling their Ford for a Chevy?
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@Breffni-Potter The one on the big screenshot you have posted yourself
(the email received). -
@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
But what happens when your pool of customers stagnates? Surely that pool of 100k installs needs to get bigger.
Then they build other products.
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@scottalanmiller said
Have you ever heard of anyone who goes into a Chevy parts store even though they drove a Ford... just, you know, randomly. And THEN someone talked them into selling their Ford for a Chevy?
Yes...all the time. Happens on a regular basis.
http://www.smbitjournal.com/2011/07/never-get-advice-from-a-reseller-or-vendor/
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@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@olivier said
- The point is we are mainly targeting XenServer users. Why? Works out-of-the-box with them, market around 100k installs. Do you really think a company like ours can compete directly with VMWare or Microsoft?
Is the point to compete? Or is the point to say "here's the alternative, try this out, we think it's cool we endorse it"
Isn't the question "can Microsoft compete with XO?" And thus far, the answer is "no".
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@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@scottalanmiller said
Have you ever heard of anyone who goes into a Chevy parts store even though they drove a Ford... just, you know, randomly. And THEN someone talked them into selling their Ford for a Chevy?
Yes...all the time. Happens on a regular basis.
http://www.smbitjournal.com/2011/07/never-get-advice-from-a-reseller-or-vendor/
No, that's VERY different. Those people made the decision to "buy what was being sold" when they selected them. That's going to the Chevy DEALER to get advice, not going to the Chevy parts store. No one does that, literally, no one. You just don't go into a parts store that is exclusively for something you don't use. No one does.
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@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
But what happens when your pool of customers stagnates? Surely that pool of 100k installs needs to get bigger.
That's sweet and candid
Do you really think we'll stop there? I said to start and have enough customers to cover our expenses. There is multiple ways to be profitable: increase your conversion rate, increase your average basket, add extra services, expand your product (ie HyperV compatible?). -
@olivier said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
But what happens when your pool of customers stagnates? Surely that pool of 100k installs needs to get bigger.
That's sweet and candid
Do you really think we'll stop there? I said to start and have enough customers to cover our expenses. There is multiple ways to be profitable: increase your conversion rate, increase your average basket, add extra services, expand your product (ie HyperV compatible?).And XO causes back pressure that propels XS forward. XS has gaps, XO fills them. As that happens, the resistance to XS reduces. But people don't go to XO and say "I want XO, what hypervisor do they support." They compare XS to ESXi and XO helps to make sure that XS has features that ESXi can't touch.
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@scottalanmiller said
And XO causes back pressure that propels XS forward.
Which is basically my point. If someone is researching it as an alternative, why would the tool not big up the platform it runs on?
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@scottalanmiller said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@olivier said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
But what happens when your pool of customers stagnates? Surely that pool of 100k installs needs to get bigger.
That's sweet and candid
Do you really think we'll stop there? I said to start and have enough customers to cover our expenses. There is multiple ways to be profitable: increase your conversion rate, increase your average basket, add extra services, expand your product (ie HyperV compatible?).And XO causes back pressure that propels XS forward. XS has gaps, XO fills them. As that happens, the resistance to XS reduces. But people don't go to XO and say "I want XO, what hypervisor do they support." They compare XS to ESXi and XO helps to make sure that XS has features that ESXi can't touch.
Exactly. Win win for us and Citrix.
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@olivier said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@scottalanmiller said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@olivier said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
But what happens when your pool of customers stagnates? Surely that pool of 100k installs needs to get bigger.
That's sweet and candid
Do you really think we'll stop there? I said to start and have enough customers to cover our expenses. There is multiple ways to be profitable: increase your conversion rate, increase your average basket, add extra services, expand your product (ie HyperV compatible?).And XO causes back pressure that propels XS forward. XS has gaps, XO fills them. As that happens, the resistance to XS reduces. But people don't go to XO and say "I want XO, what hypervisor do they support." They compare XS to ESXi and XO helps to make sure that XS has features that ESXi can't touch.
Exactly. Win win for us and Citrix.
And probably the Linux foundation.
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@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@scottalanmiller said
And XO causes back pressure that propels XS forward.
Which is basically my point. If someone is researching it as an alternative, why would the tool not big up the platform it runs on?
Because no one is finding it that way. No one looks at XO and says "I should change my platform to use this." It's not just realistic. It's the other way around, XO beefs up XS features so that XS is more competitive.
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@scottalanmiller said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@Breffni-Potter said in Why is VMWare considered so often:
@scottalanmiller said
And XO causes back pressure that propels XS forward.
Which is basically my point. If someone is researching it as an alternative, why would the tool not big up the platform it runs on?
Because no one is finding it that way. No one looks at XO and says "I should change my platform to use this." It's not just realistic. It's the other way around, XO beefs up XS features so that XS is more competitive.
I go to Xen Server.
I then go to Xen OrchestraOn the second site....there is yet another chance to pitch/convey the benefits of the former.
If the person buys into the former, surely they will buy into the latter.
So surely XO bigs it up as XS people who research XS might end up on XO to look at how to manage XS.
Does that make more sense?
Again, you keep coming back to the parts store idea but if someone wants to research if they can even buy parts in their region, why would they not be looking at parts shops in their area?
In this case, why would you buy into a hyper-visor unless you also had the tools to manage it. XO is a tool.
