How would you counter offer a job proposal
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@MattSpeller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@scottalanmiller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@Dashrender said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@scottalanmiller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@DustinB3403 said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@scottalanmiller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@DustinB3403 said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
And the counter offer was immediately refused.
So if he wasn't willing to negotiate maybe the position wasn't worth looking into.
That would be my take. He wasn't able to make you an offer worth you taking. It is what it is. You aren't desperate or out of work, you are just looking for a place to move up in the world. If they couldn't match what you make currently, it probably wasn't much of a step up.
That is how I viewed it as well.
Too many jobs get into the mindset that everyone that they hire is desperate and just happy to get an offer. They often forget that the people that they should be wanting to hire need incentive to want to work for them.
And they should want to hire people who are already working - should be asking why aren't they working?
Surprisingly, a tonne of companies actually only want people who are desperate and basically unemployable. Why? I'm not sure. Somehow they think that cheaper labour is better than good labour.
This is why I like my current employer so much and have stuck around. Motivated people who are here because they really really want to be.
I've seen a few places only hire desperate folks. Not sure why, I imagine it's something pathetic though like thinking that as you have helped them out in a tricky situation where they struggled and had no job... That the person would be more loyal. Silly.
If I were desperate and somebody used that to take advantage and pay me less than standard, they would have no respect from me and I would use them for a pay packet whilst searching for the job that does value me.
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@Jimmy9008 Yeah, my guess is that it is just bad managers.
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@MattSpeller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@scottalanmiller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@Dashrender said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@scottalanmiller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@DustinB3403 said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@scottalanmiller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@DustinB3403 said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
And the counter offer was immediately refused.
So if he wasn't willing to negotiate maybe the position wasn't worth looking into.
That would be my take. He wasn't able to make you an offer worth you taking. It is what it is. You aren't desperate or out of work, you are just looking for a place to move up in the world. If they couldn't match what you make currently, it probably wasn't much of a step up.
That is how I viewed it as well.
Too many jobs get into the mindset that everyone that they hire is desperate and just happy to get an offer. They often forget that the people that they should be wanting to hire need incentive to want to work for them.
And they should want to hire people who are already working - should be asking why aren't they working?
Surprisingly, a tonne of companies actually only want people who are desperate and basically unemployable. Why? I'm not sure. Somehow they think that cheaper labour is better than good labour.
This is why I like my current employer so much and have stuck around. Motivated people who are here because they really really want to be.
Money cannot replace happiness. All of my job moves have not been about the money. I've been happy where I was at each time, until I wasn't happy... and then the job search began...
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Why would you even consider this? I got a $20k increase for a much longer drive and I still counter offered them and got an additional $3k. I have also counter offered for jobs. Every single time. About 50% of the time they say no, and we are in the same place we were before, but many times they do actually counter.
Hasn't Pawn Stars taught you anything and seriously working for a MSP sucks IMO. I absolutely hated it. Remember their income is relative to how much work you do. If you are salary expect alot of extra work that lines their pockets not yours.
It is much different owning a MSP then working for one as an employee. They are rarely competitive with salary and benefits. You are guaranteed to work much more than 40 hours and deal with shitty customers only to make less.
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Another thing to consider, that I did once, was not ask for a pay increase but ask for a per diem to cover the extra travel. Worked out great, it was untaxed so lower cost for them to provide and better for me.
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@scottalanmiller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
Another thing to consider, that I did once, was not ask for a pay increase but ask for a per diem to cover the extra travel. Worked out great, it was untaxed so lower cost for them to provide and better for me.
When I was a project engineer, we had a vehicle allowance (they made us buy a truck) and we had a Wright fuel card (I never paid for gas, even personal trips). Being pre-tax, it's a really nice benefit.
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Allowances are the best, lowest taxes and the lowest overhead. Easy to do and lowers everyone's tax burdens.
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@scottalanmiller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@gjacobse said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@scottalanmiller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@gjacobse said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
Start with the basics.. compare your expected travel times - not just mileage but the time it takes also.
Compare the vacation times - Medical, etc.
That's what he would do to himself to determine what amount he needs to be happy. Never talk to an employer about that stuff. It's irrelevant.
agreed. but you have to know the 'final number' for each to get a starting point.
Maybe go with 20% more then current
20% is an enormous jump. You have to be pretty confident in why someone who doesn't know you would pay you 20% more than what someone agrees that you are worth today. A totally possible number, but a bold one.
I've pulled 10% (jump from in house to MSP) then 20% of base (another jump, although the total compensation plan made it a LOT larger of a jump, with reduced other costs).
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@scottalanmiller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
Another thing to consider, that I did once, was not ask for a pay increase but ask for a per diem to cover the extra travel. Worked out great, it was untaxed so lower cost for them to provide and better for me.
If your just driving I thought the IRS wouldn't allow extra milage untaxed as a work expense for a commute (although parking costs can be provided as cash that you then pocket and ride a bike). Always weird what can and can't be untaxed.
Fun discovery. If I travel with my wife to her work conference they demand I pay 1/2 the hotel bill. If she travels with me (and we abuse my companion pass with SWA) no one seems to care. I can even over-stay a work trip for an extra day or two to see the sights.
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@scottalanmiller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@Jimmy9008 said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
In the states, can new employers see what you made in previous jobs?
No, only if you disclose it.
I have seem a request for a current pay stub to prove your work history for a background check as a weird way around this. Seemed silly to me.
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@Jimmy9008 said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
For real, if 55k is similar to what you make now, and the benefits are the same, but the drive is 4x longer, and you don't need to move jobs... Pass. Nope. Not for you. Working g for an MSP sucks imo.ch."
Boom.
I liked working for a MSP a lot more than in house. Learned a lot more, very rapidly, got to do a lot of project work. Went from having access to 1-2 new servers a year, to having access to millions of capital budget for new IT projects (total customer spend for the year). Had a good team, and advanced my career a lot.
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@John-Nicholson said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@scottalanmiller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@Jimmy9008 said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
In the states, can new employers see what you made in previous jobs?
No, only if you disclose it.
I have seem a request for a current pay stub to prove your work history for a background check as a weird way around this. Seemed silly to me.
Not sure I'd be willing to work at that place - shows a HUGE amount of distrust. The previous/current employer should be willing to at least confirm that you were employed there.
it's interesting that some here seem to feel that a new employer should limit what they pay you based upon what you made at the previous employer. When I was new to IT, I made several huge jumps in salary. 50%, 40%, 35% increases over the last few. An internal promotion would almost certainly never provided those kinds of increases.
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@John-Nicholson said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
@Jimmy9008 said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
For real, if 55k is similar to what you make now, and the benefits are the same, but the drive is 4x longer, and you don't need to move jobs... Pass. Nope. Not for you. Working g for an MSP sucks imo.ch."
Boom.
I liked working for a MSP a lot more than in house. Learned a lot more, very rapidly, got to do a lot of project work. Went from having access to 1-2 new servers a year, to having access to millions of capital budget for new IT projects (total customer spend for the year). Had a good team, and advanced my career a lot.
Exactly. Unless you work for a large Enterprise, you're rarely going to touch as much equipment as you will at either a consulting company or MSP.
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@DustinB3403 said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
And the counter offer was immediately refused.
So if he wasn't willing to negotiate maybe the position wasn't worth looking into.
Not surpised at any job with that low of pay, they are looking for someone they can afford who will not ask for more money latter on.
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it's interesting that some here seem to feel that a new employer should limit what they pay you based upon what you made at the previous employer.
I think a lot of that comes from bad agencies. I applied for a job one time and it was posted by a staffing agent and they made me fill in my current salary. He told me he wasn't even going to send in the application because I wasn't currently making enough and they would "never consider me." So I applied at another job, my current one, where I make more money.
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@stacksofplates said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
it's interesting that some here seem to feel that a new employer should limit what they pay you based upon what you made at the previous employer.
I think a lot of that comes from bad agencies. I applied for a job one time and it was posted by a staffing agent and they made me fill in my current salary. He told me he wasn't even going to send in the application because I wasn't currently making enough and they would "never consider me." So I applied at another job, my current one, where I make more money.
It's weird, but I have heard of that happening. The way it was explained to me was that if you don't consider yourself worth that higher level of pay, then you're probably not good enough for the job opening we have. And even if your skills are good enough, you don't have enough confidence to get a job that pays what you're really worth.
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@stacksofplates said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
it's interesting that some here seem to feel that a new employer should limit what they pay you based upon what you made at the previous employer.
I think a lot of that comes from bad agencies. I applied for a job one time and it was posted by a staffing agent and they made me fill in my current salary. He told me he wasn't even going to send in the application because I wasn't currently making enough and they would "never consider me." So I applied at another job, my current one, where I make more money.
Talk about a horrible placement agency, I would've been tempted to write the company they were supposed to be hiring for saying "The company you're paying to vet employees doesn't have a clue."
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I've probably had my application thrown in the trash several times, because I'm not going to tell you what I'm making. If you like my resume, bring me in for an interview. If you like me, then we can talk how much you are going to pay me.
But I'm not going to tell you how much I'm making at my current job.
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I've had the opposite. Had a staffing agency call me a liar for saying that I made more than "anyone pays." Totally by coincidence, that agency was forced to pick up my current contract and pay me what they claimed I could not be paid.
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@scottalanmiller said in How would you counter offer a job proposal:
I've had the opposite. Had a staffing agency call me a liar for saying that I made more than "anyone pays." Totally by coincidence, that agency was forced to pick up my current contract and pay me what they claimed I could not be paid.
EPIC Win, lol.
